tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post9015217541943806494..comments2023-10-24T06:23:53.008-04:00Comments on Saint Brian's Chronicles: The Lords Prayer Condemns Most Christians To HellSaint Brian the Godlesshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14902151482640409544noreply@blogger.comBlogger199125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-51036786718964717852013-09-25T23:19:05.922-04:002013-09-25T23:19:05.922-04:00Harvey said,
Brian,
Mike cannot accept that any o...Harvey said, <br />Brian,<br />Mike cannot accept that any of us unbelievers can possibly "prosper" without Jesus (as Mike perceives him). His fascination with this blog and all of us involved therein points out his lack of certainty that he "has it right". Like all Christians, he is not concerned about our "souls"; only his own hoped for heavenly reward. His inability to get us to agree with his take on the next life shakes his very core beliefs, let alone that none of us has as yet been struck down by his God.<br />______________________________________________<br /><br />Harvey those are your thoughts not mine.<br />It would appear that you all do quite well for yourselves without God in your lives, but then again so does drug dealers / thieves / movie stars / and so on. What does this prove? Ambition and opportunity thrive in America….All who are willing can reap the benefits.<br />Again you are wrong about my reasons for visiting this blog. Your belief or non belief rather has no impact on my faith whatsoever. In fact my faith is anchored in Jesus and His promises. Jesus was concerned enough about your souls that He was willing to die for you yet you could care less. So why criticize me when you are the one who cares not for your own soul. Why would God want to strike you down Harvey? We will all be dead soon enough…<br />Observanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09696286233553687281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-26366792457341814742013-09-21T18:41:01.751-04:002013-09-21T18:41:01.751-04:00And at comment 198, I think it's time to start...And at comment 198, I think it's time to start a new post. <br /><br />So, NEW POST is up... more room for commentary, nothing special.Saint Brian the Godlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902151482640409544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-68758840776347196362013-09-21T18:38:11.403-04:002013-09-21T18:38:11.403-04:00I believe that emotional thought, with its capabil...I believe that emotional thought, with its capability to process many factors at once, can have value in problem-solving. Do you?Saint Brian the Godlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902151482640409544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-78324460417309551862013-09-21T17:35:07.159-04:002013-09-21T17:35:07.159-04:00I believe emotions are real.
I believe we are emot...I believe emotions are real.<br />I believe we are emotional beings.<br />I believe that emotions are not necessarily fact.pboyfloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01475980562742243007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-39080311855758458272013-09-21T13:40:57.577-04:002013-09-21T13:40:57.577-04:00Is that it? You actually don't believe in it?...Is that it? You actually don't believe in it? My definitions, they made no sense to you? It must have sounded like hogwash, then! Saint Brian the Godlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902151482640409544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-81422767949900215952013-09-21T13:37:07.571-04:002013-09-21T13:37:07.571-04:00Very logical types often have problems even believ...Very logical types often have problems even believing that the emotional side can contribute anything, that intuition is even real. So now I get it. I'd been wondering why you argue so vociferously against it having any validity, and now I see it. I see that you simply don't see it!Saint Brian the Godlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902151482640409544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-89214715822960099252013-09-20T23:27:03.292-04:002013-09-20T23:27:03.292-04:00MacGyver:- Trapped in a toilet, no problem, take o...MacGyver:- Trapped in a toilet, no problem, take one tampon and some baby powder, dynamite(including fuse!) LOLpboyfloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01475980562742243007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-55151679996005588352013-09-20T23:25:05.690-04:002013-09-20T23:25:05.690-04:00Sooooooo...
An intuitive person, being intuitive,...Sooooooo...<br /><br />An intuitive person, being intuitive, grasps the problem intuitively. Is that right?<br /><br />How about, 'A spiritual person, being spiritual and all, grasps the problem spiritually!'<br />Same thing, no?<br /><br />Or, a logical person, being logical, grasps the problem logically!<br />I understand that there is supposed to be a difference between linear and lateral thinking, a fair percentage of women WILL try to talk the shell off that egg, and then, when you fail to 'grok' them, they'll do a couple of hard rights and explain that you cannot, since one kind of excludes the other.<br /><br />But you cannot have both, 'supplements' and 'to the exclusion of' in the same meaning, unless you're being 'intuitive', unless you just want to have your cake and eat it too. Right?pboyfloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01475980562742243007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-8369401100005190022013-09-20T19:39:20.509-04:002013-09-20T19:39:20.509-04:00Non-Intuitive genius-level materials science exper...Non-Intuitive genius-level materials science expert: Gets a great job somewhere <br /><br />Hyper-Intuitive genius-level materials science expert: MacGyverSaint Brian the Godlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902151482640409544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-68509576747068536462013-09-20T19:13:10.646-04:002013-09-20T19:13:10.646-04:00Okay, here;s how I see it:
"So, trying to c...Okay, here;s how I see it: <br /><br />"So, trying to clarify the meaning of 'intuition', one kind is mostly conditioning although not conditioning, another kind is 'holistic lateral thinking'?<br />Is that right?"<br />-Holistic (meaning taking a view of the whole of the situation, thus including all data, *including* any remaining early conditioning *and* any subsequent success one has had in overcoming same. <br />So to me, all intuition is a form of holistic lateral thought, the variables being things like how much and how reliable the data is and all emotional baggage and literally everything about the person. <br />Training your intuition thus requires that one improve oneself to the point where they have an accurate view of consensual reality, and then your intuition will "solve" problems in that "sensible" paradigm.<br /><br /><br />"Seems like gathering up as much info as possible, defining the problem and waiting for a solution to present itself. Which doesn't seem like something that one can 'train' to do better."<br />-However if one has good intuitive thought processes they can better consider the whole of the problem and process more factors than would be possible in a linear thought pattern. Enough factors that one would lose track of them if one had to assign a word or explanation to them all. One "grasps" the problem intuitively, meaning that one senses the meaning of it *non-verbally.* As a gestalt, as a whole. Once that happens, solutions can suggest themselves, drawing on a much larger, even an unconscious or subconscious database in order to solve it. Saint Brian the Godlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902151482640409544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-87580160367172310802013-09-20T18:59:55.124-04:002013-09-20T18:59:55.124-04:00Maybe... and maybe I don't like admitting that...Maybe... and maybe I don't like admitting that to myself, who knows?Saint Brian the Godlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902151482640409544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-33571407405268307032013-09-20T18:58:34.319-04:002013-09-20T18:58:34.319-04:00The more logical a person is in nature, the more i...The more logical a person is in nature, the more it is likely that they would see no value in intuition. Another one of those yin-yang things. Saint Brian the Godlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902151482640409544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-39244911694094104692013-09-20T14:38:19.521-04:002013-09-20T14:38:19.521-04:00Doesn't everything drivel down to conditioning...Doesn't everything drivel down to conditioning though?pboyfloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01475980562742243007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-33841943355296305872013-09-20T14:00:11.050-04:002013-09-20T14:00:11.050-04:00So, trying to clarify the meaning of 'intuitio...So, trying to clarify the meaning of 'intuition', one kind is mostly conditioning although not conditioning, another kind is 'holistic lateral thinking'?<br />Is that right? <br />Seems like gathering up as much info as possible, defining the problem and waiting for a solution to present itself. Which doesn't seem like something that one can 'train' to do better.<br /><br />Seems like, "Given the facts I know and the solutions I can think of, there's no good answer, yet. Let me think on that!"<br /><br />Um, yea, isn't that what everyone would do in that circumstance? <br /><br />Adding another meaning which is 'mostly conditioning', or coming to the same conclusion as those 'leaders' you like and parroting their talking points, isn't anywhere near the same as the other one.pboyfloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01475980562742243007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-7628834473113409392013-09-20T13:51:49.887-04:002013-09-20T13:51:49.887-04:00Only in a logical mind. Only in a mind that subje...Only in a logical mind. Only in a mind that subjects the results of it's intuitions to logical scrutiny before believing them. Saint Brian the Godlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902151482640409544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-20122320036873254402013-09-20T13:47:15.974-04:002013-09-20T13:47:15.974-04:00Right now rightwing christo-republican fascists al...Right now rightwing christo-republican fascists all are intuiting that the government is out to get their guns and that all liberals are commies and so forth. Those are not logical thoughts. They are intuitions. "Gut instincts." It's just that the minds that are intuiting here are filled with incorrect information that FEELS right to these people. <br /><br />And while intuition is not the same thing as early childhood conditioning, it does take said conditioning as part of it's data set when evaluating something, unless the person has learned enough to get beyond that in the intuiting process. Saint Brian the Godlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902151482640409544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-77568564650469427822013-09-20T13:43:36.837-04:002013-09-20T13:43:36.837-04:00All intuitions are feelings, but not all feelings ...All intuitions are feelings, but not all feelings are intuitions. Saint Brian the Godlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902151482640409544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-27185069090068719512013-09-20T13:39:41.925-04:002013-09-20T13:39:41.925-04:00I don't really think that Einstein thinking ou...I don't really think that Einstein thinking out of the box really is 'intuition' at all, now that I have thought about that.<br />-------------------<br />No, it is. I'm not sure that early ingrained knowledge like "don't steal" is intuition. That's more like conditioning. <br />If we were to use the terms "linear thinking" and "lateral thinking" would that be different to you? Because they're the same thing to me. Saint Brian the Godlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902151482640409544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-47462957463500344742013-09-20T13:26:35.988-04:002013-09-20T13:26:35.988-04:00I assure you that they're both intuition. Tha...I assure you that they're both intuition. That's what I've been saying when I talk about informed or trained intuition. Intuition is looking at your entire worldview and grasp of reality and collected knowledge and holistically processing it non-verbally to come up with an answer. If said worldview/grasp of reality/collected knowledge is small (as in a child) or stunted (as in a rightwing christian) it simply is less able to come up with right answers. <br />Saint Brian the Godlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902151482640409544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-16458335753750268082013-09-20T13:25:29.904-04:002013-09-20T13:25:29.904-04:00"I'm saying that one can train their intu..."I'm saying that one can train their intuitions, of course."<br /><br />And of course I'm saying that one isn't doing a bang up job of defining intuition.<br /><br />I mean, "The thing that Einstein did when he had all the facts and needed to fit his model to it."? <br /><br />Once again, it seems we're down to using logic until the facts themselves seem illogical, then thinking outside of the box and/or letting it 'marinade' in one's subverbal processes of the streaming consciousness, both awake and asleep, finally tweaking the model until the facts fit. Logically, they must fit.<br /><br />Far from being logic/intuition, it's logic/not necessarily logical machinations eventually creating a model that is logical.<br />Don't you think?pboyfloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01475980562742243007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-1177281114175086572013-09-20T13:08:04.901-04:002013-09-20T13:08:04.901-04:00Far from it Brian, there is, of course, a vast dif...Far from it Brian, there is, of course, a vast difference between Einstein having some kind of intuition about how his model of the universe is going to be found to work, and, some Bible thumper having an intuition that God caused some disaster because there are too many unpunished homosexuals roaming free.<br />This seems to me to speak to the vagueness of the word 'intuition'.<br /><br />How about the 'intuition' that we just know that stealing is wrong and hurting people is wrong. All that morality stuff where the religious discount all the training we've given a child, scolding her for taking a toy or some food, scolding her for hitting another child, that kind of thing, then pronouncing that it's God's COMMANDMENTS that is the reason that stealing and the ultimate hurting, murder, is wrong.<br />They're telling you that stealing, murder etc. is wrong because God says so, but they teach you, you just know that these things are wrong because of everyone telling you it's wrong as you're growing up.<br />Then there are sociopaths who can't learn the lesson that anything is wrong and take their cues from society. They'd learn that getting caught stealing is not a good thing to happen to them, but if they are pretty sure they'll get away with it or 'the not good thing' that's going to happen doesn't bother them much, hey, it's all fair game.<br />I think it becomes 'intuitive' for us to know that stealing is not the good thing to do, barring sociopaths, and just the word 'stealing' itself means, 'doing something bad', because of the 'moral grounding' that parents/guardians give their children. Then they pass it along that it is wrong because God said, because they're religious and they want to pass it along to their kids.<br /><br />Even before a child can speak, if it takes a toy that another kid was playing with, the other kid starts crying or maybe fighting, the adults in the room get angry and the child learns with very limited verbal understanding, that that is not allowed, it's going to upset everyone.<br />So there's that kind of intuition which can lead the religious to believe that they've just 'always' known that stealing and hurting others is wrong, right? Even though it is perfectly logical.<br /><br />It's also perfectly logical for Einstein to gather the facts as best he can and for a solution to pop into his mind after thinking and thinking about how he expected things to be isn't panning out. That would be the opposite way of 'intuiting' something, instead of it just being 'ingrained' through childhood, breaking out of ideas that have been 'ingrained'.<br />I don't really think that Einstein thinking out of the box really is 'intuition' at all, now that I have thought about that.<br /><br />Passing off the idea that, say, stealing is wrong, as intuition and Einstein thinking outside the box as intuition, seems to me to be a way to dodge around, "Oh, intuition is 'this', nono, it's 'that'.", it's the same moving of goalposts that is just bogus when you notice it being done to you.<br />So were we talking about both using a word which happens to have a meaning that covers both, or what?pboyfloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01475980562742243007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-91675341050581508992013-09-20T07:39:58.522-04:002013-09-20T07:39:58.522-04:00I'm saying that one can train their intuitions...I'm saying that one can train their intuitions, of course. Did Einstein utilize intuition in his problem solving? It is known that he did, often getting clues to the answers in down-time when not thinking about them. Or in a dream or whatever. When a person knows celestial mechanics and high-level physics and that's his or her skill set, these skills are what inform their emotional side and their intuitions. When a person denies reality and knows a lot about the bible and not much else, their intuitions have little to inform them so they aren't much good in complex situations. Surely you're not suggesting that all intuition is equal, and equally worthless? Saint Brian the Godlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902151482640409544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-8683970820382545082013-09-20T02:27:29.042-04:002013-09-20T02:27:29.042-04:00"An incorrect intuition, often one that was *..."An incorrect intuition, often one that was *induced* by other parties with agendas and their lies and distortions, becomes a belief, immune to facts and logic."<br /><br />Are you saying that 'correct' intuition is not 'induced' by other parties, like some kind of innate knowledge perhaps(?), with or without agendas, lies and distortions?<br /><br />Seems to me that intuition is a gut feeling about something.<br />"Intuition is the ability to acquire representation or knowledge about things, apparently without reasoning or usage of reason in general.[1] Cases of intuition are of a great diversity, however processes by which they happen typically remain mostly unknown to the thinker, as opposed to our view of rational thinking."<br /><br />But of course the processes are not necessarily known to the intuiter(if that's a word) but might include tone of voice, body language, perhaps even pheromones, and that would be perfectly logical if it WERE brought into one's decision making using, say, subverbal recall.<br /><br />Thinks, "I've smelled that before, that man seems genuine but he smells funny, there's something wrong with that compared to his casual attitude!" <br />Someone with that sense of smell but not knowing how to verbalize it would appear to know that something was up, by intuition, not reason, right?pboyfloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01475980562742243007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-38181172634030248012013-09-19T22:14:36.881-04:002013-09-19T22:14:36.881-04:00Thanks, Brian. Please note my recently posted resp...Thanks, Brian. Please note my recently posted response to your comments about empathy.Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10797750710657979526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376937841692070856.post-59309996603532033672013-09-19T22:11:44.867-04:002013-09-19T22:11:44.867-04:00Brian:
You can call it empathy, self projection, o...Brian:<br />You can call it empathy, self projection, or even "moral" behavior, but, in the end, one's decision to "put yourself in someone else's place" and, thereby, to decide to do something for the other's benefit still results in either some perceived self gratification or avoidance, perhaps, of feeling "bad" because you didn't help them out when you could have. Not that I think such empathetic behavior is not admirable and it certainly can result in pleasant personal feed-back, but it still boils down to obtaining the most "good" or avoiding the most "evil" as a result of our choices.Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10797750710657979526noreply@blogger.com