Tuesday, November 8, 2011
Jesus Loves Bullies
New Anti-Bullying Law In Michigan allows exceptions for 'religious conviction'
An anti-bullying law that makes exceptions if the *bully* has religious convictions about it? Really? REALLY?
Um, wouldn't that be just about all anti-gay bullies?
What, are they going for the title of 'Most Infuriating Legislation?' Because this makes me want to punch a random Christian in the head.
Lately it's not so much that religion seems harmful. No, those days are long gone. Nowadays it seems that religion has just become outright malicious, and proud of it. The mask is off. It's gone 'overt.' It just doesn't seem to give a fuck anymore. It's just 'going for it.' For all the glory and the power, amen. Screw everyone else, we're Team Jesus. Pay no attention to the fact that we act like we hate his guts; we're using his name so it's all cool. Rejoice! Now roll over and play dead for The Lord, we're coming with our jackboots on!
Religion doesn't even try to hide its evil side nowadays, counting on the fact that the public is conditioned to tolerate it reflexively. Sure I have hopes that it won't last, that the more horrific their behavior becomes the less credence the public will give them, but hey, we're fucking stupid, so that's probably not going to happen anytime soon. We need to have a religious revolt of a different kind; a revolt against the mental shackles and chains of religion. We need to free our minds from this ridiculous mental slavery, this mental computer virus called 'faith.' After all, it's utterly revolting.
I have no problem with freedom of religion, but that doesn't mean that it's free to dominate every area of the country and repress all others who disagree. Nobody's free to restrict the freedom of others, although that's what they believe they're entitled to do.
'Entitled' is a big word for them. And I mean that in two ways: Importance, and spelling difficulty.
I have no problem with Christians that keep their religion to themselves. I wish there were more of them. They're not the problem. They might even be part of the solution, if they grow a pair and fight back against this Antichrist that pretends to holiness.
This new law is execrable. What I fervently hope is that some Muslim student beats the ever-loving crap out of a good, clean, whitebread Evangelical Christian boy, and uses his legal religious exclusion to get off scot-free.
How on earth could anyone let this happen? Have they no hearts whatsoever? This is *condoning* bullying, even encouraging it! People are dying, killing themselves, because of this issue of Christian bigotry, and so of course, this law enshrines and protects it as religious freedom. Anything to promote more hatred in the name of the Prince of Peace, I guess.
Hypocrisy is a strong word, usually. But in this case, it is far too weak to be applicable. I'll go with 'evil.' Or even perhaps 'Evil,' as in, metaphysical Evil. If such a thing exists, this is it. What can be worse than evil believing itself to be good, and thus feeling good, about being evil?
This is just plain ugly. Here we have a group of people that are so very entitled and so very self-important and so very inflated with false pride, that they make the Pharisees of the Bible seem pious and humble by comparison.
Comfortable in the unshakeable belief that they are Chosen and Superior to all others, that they are literally by definition decent, upright, Godly people, they are thus free in their minds to become the polar opposite of all that, and never even realize it.
They are the evil that they fear. They are the Antichrist. They spin in circles of self-delusion, and can no longer see reality. They have decided to construct their own version. They insist.
Nothing could be further away from Christ's message than these wasters, these destroyers, these haters. They are the Cautionary Tales, demonstrating what can happen to a person when they come to believe that they no longer need to think.
Believing themselves to be blessed, they curse themselves. And in the process, curse us all.
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Posted on the same topic.
ReplyDeleteFigures.
ReplyDeleteIt's too offensive to not talk about.
Ah. I did mine verbally and you did it with a cartoon. So not so similar after all. Nice.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to get my head around the sheer amount of hubris necessary to even propose a law like this one.
To them, the sin of Pride is a sacrament.
If this isn't an adequate illustration of the *fact* that their moral system is bankrupt, I don't know what is.
ReplyDelete"God says" is their get out of jail free card.
ReplyDeleteHomosexual bullying will most likely occur, as you guess. But what is going to happen to children of "out" atheists ?
There can be no better excuse to torment these children than religion. "Hey, I was only trying show the little heathen the fear of god!"
Have these guys even thought about the implications? (of course not, I know)
ReplyDeleteWould it not also be the case that a Muslim could claim the same for assault against a Christian?
But what is going to happen to children of "out" atheists ?
ReplyDelete------------
Like my kid, you mean?
If any school official tells me that his bully is excused because of his religion, that person will immediately thereafter have significant trouble breathing out of their nose for about two weeks.
Or perhaps the bully's dad would be more appropriate in that context as a candidate for nasal re-alignment.
One or the other, it won't happen to my kid twice.
Hmmm - in actuality, this might work to our advantage. After all, what are they saying? That religion is an excuse for otherwise criminal behaviors. What are the other instances where this defense is used? - Mental illness and diminished capacity. So the Legislature of Michigan has just said that religion is either a form of mental illness or diminished capacity.
ReplyDelete"I'll tell you what crazy is. Crazy is walking down the street with half a cantelope on your head saying, 'I'm a hamster, I'm a hamster.', that's crazy." - Leslie Neilson as Agent WD-40.
ReplyDeleteChristians think it's funny, I guess is what I'm saying. What's wrong with kids bullying others into being Christian, forcing them to fit in?
MI doesn't see anything wrong with trying that on us.
Guess it goes back to having two opposing ideas in your head at the same time.
MI is so obviously the kind of person who would do 'anything' for the kids, but only if they're willing to go along with her little agenda.
Kids doing it to other kids 'cos they're gay or atheist or perhaps Muslim, well that would fit right in with what she'd do, wouldn't it?
----------------->
ReplyDeleteWould have commented sooner, but lives in Michigan and still hasn't managed to completely separate palm from face...
Oh you poor, poor man, Ed...
ReplyDeleteApparently they're trying to turn Michigan into Mississippi.
On a bright note, apparently there's good shit going down in Ohio, namely senate bill 5. So far by almost 2 to 1.
Could be the beginning of the turn of the tide.
Let's hope.
Have to get into a more serious mode...
ReplyDeleteSo it's Death Dealer rather than Tim the Enchanter?
ReplyDeleteGood call.
Amazing news from Mississippi, even THEY don't want a fertilized egg to be a 'person'.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure they want a corporation to be a person EITHER.
Mitt Romney has more walking backwards to do.
lol
"Battle-Axe beats Magic Wand"...
ReplyDeleteI wold say Tim would win with his hand-gesture explosions, but he apparently couldn't even destroy one bunny (albeit a vicious one, but still, target's the same size) with them, so I guess I'll bet on Battle-Axe. Or battle-axe-scythe. Or whatever that vicious implement is.
ReplyDeleteAmazing news from Mississippi, even THEY don't want a fertilized egg to be a 'person'.
ReplyDelete------------
I know! Who'd a thunk it?
You notice that just before the polling it was like 51-49 FOR the bill passing, but it got creamed in the actual vote? Wonder what that means? It's the same when they tried twice to pass it in Colorado... just before the vote it was fairly tight but in the actual vote it lost big time. Apparently it's characteristic of this vote... I guess maybe people don't want to tell the pollster their real choice in the advance polls? Rachael brought up the Colorado votes a few nights ago and it made me feel a bit more confident, and wouldn't you know, she was dead-on.
Rachael's a smart girl. No wonder the right hates her like an ammonia enema.
And let's not forget, Senate Bill 5 in Ohio got plastered like a bug on a windshield.
ReplyDeleteKasich looked like a schoolboy caught masturbating. I thought he might cry.
Ya hafta appreciate that. What an asshole. And I don't believe for one planck unit of time that he won't try something similar in the future, real soon even.
Their hubris knows no bounds.
All these things though, are like the Reps are going, "You win this time(sulk).", but you're NOT winning, you're just not losing.
ReplyDeleteThey're not stupid, they can cry a giant river over not fuckin' the public over, but, pfft., they'll try again later, no biggie.
Yeah, I get that impression too.
ReplyDeleteThey're like a relentless machine.
I understand that as to this bill (subject of this post) that the state senate in MI is going to make some changes. I understand it's garnered international attention.
ReplyDeleteOf course it has, it's christian shariah law. The world points to us now and laughs and says "I can't believe they've fallen so far..."
I expect to hear news of an ACLU challenge to the law any day... I'd think that the law violates the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment...
ReplyDeleteI once played table tennis at the U.S. Open in Detroit. Cobo Hall.
ReplyDeleteA lot of fun... but I had McDonald's Chicken McNuggets that I suspect were Rat McBodyparts instead.... I threw up for two days on that shit and can't stand McNuggets to this day, over twenty-five years later.
I remember Detroit in that time as a lot of really impressive tall buildings in great condition mixed about 50-50 with run-down slummy-looking buildings and areas. I wonder what it looks like now...
The dichotomy is worse, Brian. The last time I was there, many of the slummy-looking buildings downtown had been razed, leaving vacant, rubble-filled lots surrounded by locked chain-link fences topped with razor wire (as if keeping thugs out of vacant real estate was some kind of priority...).
ReplyDeleteI've been to Cobo Hall a couple of times. Saw Black Sabbath there in 1981 (with Ronnie James Dio as frontman) on the "heaven and Hell" tour, and Journey in '79 or '80 plugging their "Evolution" album (the follow-up to "infinity", the one with "Wheel in the Sky" on it).
I'm not a big Journey fan, but the tickets were free, so I went.
“Jesus loves bullies” He didn’t have anything to do with the new law why make a banner out of him?
ReplyDeleteMike, it's irony. Jesus obviously didn't love bullies. Modern christians do however, and choose to justify it in Jesus' name.
ReplyDeleteClearer now?
Mike, if you're not aware of it, I like Jesus just fine. I see him a lot differently than you do though. I see him as the best example of the best of us, all rolled into one.
He's a very hard example to follow though, as evidenced by how very, very few christians follow it. It's a lot *easier* to change what he said and stood for just a bit in your minds so that you can have your cake and eat it too. That's where the other Bible authors come in... to negate what Jesus wanted you all to do with your lives so you can just live them in a more selfish manner than Jesus would approve of, and still pretend that you follow him so you can pretend that your selfishness is somehow holy.
Why do you guys do that? Why not just read his words in the bible, forget the ones that go against them that were written by OTHER PEOPLE, and just follow Jesus Christ so you can call yourself a Christian and really mean it?
BTW, this illustrates something that many people have said and I have noticed as well.
ReplyDeleteChristians, for some reason, absolutely do not 'get' irony.
Mike, I've even heard christians say that, since Jesus Christ was God and therefore Perfect, no human can even hope to equal him.
ReplyDeleteThey tell me this when I ask them why they don't even try to emulate him, to take him as an example that we maybe can't duplicate but that we can at least strive for, shoot for, as an ideal. Sure we can't get there, but it's there so we know the right direction to go in.
So they're saying, since Jesus was perfect and we can't ever be perfect, WHY EVEN TRY?
Do you agree with that? Because I think a lot of christians do.
You know, don't you, that just because god said that all people are sinners, that it doesn't mean to be happy with that, to not even try to be better, to try to be in your actions, ever closer to Jesus?
ReplyDeleteYou know that, right?
Or are you one of the common types that just believe that all they need to do is believe in Jesus, get 'born again,' and they're saved, and that's all they care about?
ReplyDeleteWorks are not important to those types. They care not what their 'fruits' say of them. They have their eye set on the *goal* of salvation so much that they can't see the man in front of them in need, who as the Hebrews used to say, may be an angel in disguise here to test your compassion.
Numerologically tonight is a very significant time for Herman Cain.
ReplyDeleteTonight's debate is the ninth RNC debate, held on the ninth of November, which in the old Roman calendar, was the ninth month.
It'll either be very good, or very bad for him. Just watch. ;-)
Now I just heard that it was the tenth debate tonight. Not the ninth.
ReplyDeleteNo wonder that it was Perry who flamed out then.
Mitt is a Christian like Mitt Romney is an Objective moral value(intersubjective moral value) person.
ReplyDeleteHe's all for making a fertilized egg a person unless a state-wide vote defeats that proposal.
Trouble with intersubjective moral values is that religion is in the business of telling YOU what your moral values ARE, but in the real world with real consequences people can sometimes see how fast those religious morals might be used to bite you, or a loved one, wife, daughter, sister etc. etc. on the ass.
On Mike's part, he makes no bones about how small the contingent of 'true' Christians are, which gives him a lot of leeway when it comes to 'objective moral values'.
If everyone he admires agrees with him, well, they'e absolutely right, if not, well, they're just not 'true' enough Christians, that's all.
I think that Mike is purely motivated by politics, in that with very right wing policies being enacted, his Christian ministry would find itself in charge of social issues such as looking after the poor, the old, the sick, the very young poor.
Throwing a bum a sandwich is 'good', but forcing a bum to come and listen to your sermon and sing Christian songs before he gets the sandwich, perfect!
Perry's top spoxman, Ray Sullivan, on Perry's gaffe last night:
ReplyDelete"That was a stumble of style, not substance."
Actually I agree. Perry seemed to be there to give his comedic stylings stand up routine.
ReplyDeleteEveryone there had come to hear a serious politician, a presidential contender.
Bachmann's last quotable quote is a bit like telling kids there's no Santa, in giving away the GOP secret, "He who will not work, will not eat."
I didn't hear uproarious applause there, another bad crowd? Or do their sheep not really understand the consequences of their actions?
Cheering a state sanctioned killing is one thing, booing a gay soldier too, but cheering people going hungry?
These are insulated people who are so far along the curve their minds boggle at the notion of 'going hungry'.
"Are they going to make late reservations if they don't work that day? But there's still home, there's still food in the freezer and fridge, no?"
Michele Bachmann may be an undercover Democrat at this point, pointing out realistic consequences of their policies.
Who wants to be told that the poorest Americans are starving amid plenty?
Best stick to the 'lazy' angle, that's it, poor people are poor 'cos they're lazy is all.
America is at the point where the Armed Forces are fighting for the system which both sides insist is broken.
ReplyDeleteThe right want an illusion of fairness while it is simply an oligarchy.
Candidates can rise to power with support from the rich, their popularity nurtured under controlled televised conditions with vetted audiences and soft-ball questions.
How horrible the World is with Obama in the White House?
How horrible is it that the 'left wing media' refuse to hide it that the right's 'job creation effort' is to simply lower taxes on the wealthy even MORE?
How horrible is it that the people now seem to be willing to stand up against their 'leadership'?
It's a damned horrible world the righties live in, not being able to disenfranchise those they deem not fit to vote, to not be allowed to impoverish those not able to pay the usury, to not be allowed to silence collective bargaining.
After all there's a war going on to preserve those values, isn't there?
Do they not value life, in principle, and freedom, in principle?
And isn't the life of a few cells just about as 'transendental', as 'in principle' as one could possibly get?
Why those cells might grow into the brave new free world of economic slavery, work or starve.
Oops, our oligarchy is showing through our pretend democracy.
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ReplyDeleteOne of the reasons I comment less frequently here is that I am sometimes distressed to read the far-left discussions, as I consider myself a right-leaning moderate. To me, the Far Left looks like a bunch of Kum-Bah-Yah singing hippies that want to redistribute wealth in a manner that they (and nobody else) considers "equitable". On the other hand, there's people like that gash Michelle Bachman...
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of sorry excuse for a human being must she be to say things like that, when if given the chance, ALL those people on unemployment right now would work for a living rather than soak up unemployment or welfare? If there were jobs...
I had to "create" my own job. What I do (when I am doing it) helps to keep dozens of other people working (although to be fair, I'm not anywhere near the top of the food chain; if I didn't do this stuff, someone else would. But I AM doing it, competing with others for the available scraps, and actually getting some-but at a cost of having to underbid jobs to get the contracts).
Who the fuck are these insulated Republicans that can't see that there aren't enough jobs for everyone since, like, NAFTA was signed?
I don't care, right or left, I want to see COMPASSION in government, not OPPRESSION. Give me that, and I'll vote you in again, republican or democrat. However, the republicans seem to have forgotten how to even feel it anymore. They've laid compassion down, see it as a 'weakness' and 'pathetic' and the poor as 'parasites.'
ReplyDeleteSo I'm a dem, till there's something better to be.
I had to "create" my own job.
ReplyDelete---------------
Which is admirable, to me. However do not forget for even a minute what allowed you to do so. Our system. So you had opportunities, and you had society's support.... police, fire, the highway system, roads, bridges, and most importantly education as a child.... and a host of other things, many of which democrats won for you and me decades ago. So just don't turn into one of those 'self-made' people that honestly believe that they just did it all themselves without any help (when they didn't,) and therefore want to make it so that everyone has to do it themselves or fail.
If you had been in that position, with no education or support from society, all on your own, you wouldn't have been able to do what you did. That's the Libertarian lie, that one person can be a success all by themselves, that they don't need society's help.
So you had opportunities, and you had society's support.... police, fire, the highway system, roads, bridges, and most importantly education as a child.... and a host of other things, many of which democrats won for you and me decades ago. So just don't turn into one of those 'self-made' people that honestly believe that they just did it all themselves without any help (when they didn't,) and therefore want to make it so that everyone has to do it themselves or fail.
ReplyDeleteIf you had been in that position, with no education or support from society, all on your own, you wouldn't have been able to do what you did. That's the Libertarian lie, that one person can be a success all by themselves, that they don't need society's help.
Not at all, Brian. As a surveyor, I'm certainly aware of the effort that went into (and still goes into) providing the infrastructure we all enjoy. Self-made? Perhaps, in some senses. But don't forget where I came from, either: I grew up in Michigan in a broken home with a mother that had to be on welfare while she went back to college so she could support 4 kids (she graduated after I finished high school). After that, I gave ten years to the Army, and would have given more if my physical condition had permitted me to do so. I educated myself courtesy of the U.S. Military and the Veteran's Administration (mostly). That I have a need to "create" my own job by starting a business is a consequence of several factors, notably that the Professional Surveyor License I pursued gives me the legal right to operate a business, that the economy tanked and I lost the job I had earlier(laid off in January 2009), leaving me with a choice to either push onward or accept defeat...
There's probably more.
I'm hardly self-made in any ultimate sense...
My wife works in the welfare dept. so she sees a lot of people in serious need. Some of the people she sees, are trying to game the system. There's a lot of that, and when the right points it out it makes it seem that they're all like that when it's actually a very small minority. Most of them are in real need and if the economy were better, would have jobs. Many have degrees! Many are in tears, saying 'I never thought it would come to this!' It's a very sad thing, and she feels really good when she can actually help them. To denigrate that system as the right does, is frankly disgusting.
ReplyDeleteWe don't need to be living in MI and little b brian's moral values rule.
ReplyDeleteMI and little b brian would be quite happy to watch people starve, simply on account of 'they really ought to blame themselves'.
brian would be happy to dish out dolls to cute poor little girls at Christmas, hoping to make a good Christian wife of her one day, but the family as a whole, well, if dad can't get work, fuck them the rest of the year, he must be lazy.
You say you have to work for less than you feel you're worth Ed, undercutting contracts, and that's what America has come down to.
How lucky were you to grow up in a society where your mother could collect welfare for you to live on and go to school herself?
How lucky were you that the army would teach you skills and allow you to attend college with that government program?
Imagining that you 'served' therefore you 'deserved' comes from a truly socialist position, not the totalitarian regimes that the right foists off on us as 'socialism'.
There have been plenty asked to serve that were thrown under the bus after their services were no longer required.
Even teachers, nurses, firemen and other govt. workers wouldn't have had the pension plans and so forth if it hadn't been for the unions fighting in the streets for decent wages back when, then those white collar unions turned their backs on the worker unions as too radical, as almost communist.
I'm guessing your hero is Ron Paul, but there's no 50 yard line between the Ron Pauls and the religious right, the I'm alright jack right, no.
Even Ron Paul says if you have a bad accident on your motorcycle and your insurance is not up to scratch, well, bad planning on your part, your just going to die is all.
That kind of society is not what most folk dream of, it's a society that most folk would have to suffer through.
It's not like I didn't prepare or anything...
ReplyDeleteI was tracking on a career in Surveying as far back as 1982, actively pursuing a degree and licensure by the late 80's*, actually managed to finish my degree in 2007, got my license to survey in Michigan in 2008 (had a license to survey in North Carolina since 2000), and got laid off in 2009.
*domestic situations prevented me from completing the first attempt. Remember, I have 3 X-wives...
We've had three calls today, from a man claiming he represents MicroSoft and he sees that there is a problem with our computer.
ReplyDeleteThis phone number must be a prime target because Emma is on some kind of 'easily defrauded' list.
She's terminally ill, owns a computer and is getting up there in years.
I can understand them 'giving it a try', but three tries within hours?
These thieves want you to believe that you need to go to their website where they can hijack your computer and charge you not to wreck it.
Think they charge 180 bucks to not bugger your computer up once you've given them control of it.
No doubt certain libertarians are quite happy to imagine that ignorant people deserve to be 'taken' and that these 'enterprising people' are only 'thinning the herd' when it comes to scams like this.
Three times today though. I suppose the tiniest possiblity of getting about 200 bucks for a phone call is worth it.
You say you have to work for less than you feel you're worth Ed, undercutting contracts, and that's what America has come down to.
ReplyDeleteHow lucky were you to grow up in a society where your mother could collect welfare for you to live on and go to school herself?
How lucky were you that the army would teach you skills and allow you to attend college with that government program?
And I do credit all those things, Ian. I said I'm not "self-made" in any ultimate sense. My mother went on welfare because we all needed it, but as soon as she was capable (she got her RN through going back to college), she went to work and got OFF welfare.
As for lowballing bids to get contracts, it's not that I think I'm not getting what I'm worth; it's that we have to bid less than it realistically costs to do the job plus a reasonable profit. Let's face it--I'm in business to make a profit. If I don't make a profit, the business fails. This ain't charity! I had to pay for about 25% of my degree even WITH the assistance, plus I have to maintain my license (sunken cost there), had to finance the equipment and supplies, etc.
I often meet people in my working day that come up to me on a jobsite and ask, "Can you come over and find my property corner for me? It'll only take a second..." I point out to them that we aren't some municipal public service, and that the property owner we're working for is paying us to do HIS property survey. Often, I engage in a little role-playing...
(cont'd)
I say, Let's pretend you are me for a minute, except that you're now a hot dog vendor on a busy street corner. A customer comes up and orders a hot dog with all the trimmings. I happen to come by and realize that I'm hungry, smelling the yummy pork by-products, etc.
ReplyDeleteSo I say to you, the hot dog vendor, "Say, I just realized I'm hungry. Would you let me take a bite out of that other gentlemman's hot dog before you give it to him?"
See the problem?
There have been plenty asked to serve that were thrown under the bus after their services were no longer required.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't "asked" to serve. I volunteered.
...and I volunteered because the opportunities for a college drop-out in Michigan c. 1983 were non-existent.
ReplyDeleteIt was the best possible choice in a list of shitty choices.
"I wasn't "asked" to serve. I volunteered."
ReplyDeleteOh, I guess there WEREN'T plenty asked to serve then thrown under the bus, then.
I volunteered
ReplyDelete-------------
Again, admirable. But I suspect that both the drafted and the volunteer vets are struggling now.
I think it's a disgrace either way.
If anything they ought to prioritize the vets so at the bare minimum they can find employment, after all they were asked to give to their country. It's the least we can do, and we're not doing it.
And I say that as someone that never served their country as you did, Ed.
ReplyDeleteEven a non-vet should be able to see that these people gave their country a whole fucking lot of their lives and time and so did their families. All for us. So they need to be taken care of, since they took care of us first.
Oh, and it occurs to me that I forgot something:
ReplyDeleteYou volunteered to serve your country.
Thank you. Thank you for that.
Oh, I guess there WEREN'T plenty asked to serve then thrown under the bus, then.
ReplyDeleteNever said that, never implied it.
Projecting, much?
"There have been plenty asked to serve that were thrown under the bus after their services were no longer required.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't "asked" to serve. I volunteered."
But you DID imply that I was wrong, and that I was wrong on account of you volunteered and weren't asked to serve, didn't you?
""asked""
Honestly, Ian, I do agree with probably 95% of what you post.
ReplyDeleteBut I'm not an atheist because I'm a liberal. The two things aren't necessarily linked. If you asked most repubs, I'd come across to them as a flaming liberal: pro-choice, atheist, OK with the thought of gays being married, etc. My Republican leanings are entirely wedded to my (dubious) status as a small business owner who doesn't agree with Ultra-Liberal wealth redistribution strategies.
Yes, corporate greed is ginormous and obscene. Yes, Congress is filled with dinosaurs who haven't a clue about reality any more, and couldn't care less.
On the other hand, labor unions have all but outlived their usefulness. Most of what they were formed to address in the first place is now law, enacted by liberal congresses, and as such, the unions are concerned mainly with strongarming their way into more pay and benefits for their members and at the same time failing to realize that they're privcing themselves beyond market forces. If corporate America can hire five Costa Ricans for the same amount of money as five Americans and get seven times the amount of work out of them in the bargain,...
THEY SHOULD!
But you DID imply that I was wrong, and that I was wrong on account of you volunteered and weren't asked to serve, didn't you?
ReplyDeleteI knew guys that volunteered like I did (there's no draft in America; everyone volunteers now, and has since the draft ended back in the early 1970s) that got thrown under the bus. Hell, I barely avoided being thrown under the bus myself. I was just noting that the character of my service was voluntary.
Snowing outside...
ReplyDeleteUgh!
I had another salvia experience last night.
ReplyDeleteI managed to go past where I had heart palpitations before.
I saw what at the time seemed to be the basic nature of reality, but in retrospect might well just be the basic nature of my mind.
I saw a vision of an eternal sea of chaos, and it consisted of *particles* of *meaning.* Each *particle* was a basic thought concept, like a short word. It was an eternal sea of meaning. I could sense the infinite nature of it, and that everything we perceive as reality is just how we form this sea into something intelligible for a while.... that we form the meaning out of it, and we ourselves are nothing more than an *area* wherein the *particles* of *meaning* have formed a self-sustaining pattern and have thus formed a consciousness out of it that is much more ordered than the average level of consciousness, and when I say 'average level' I mean that it's ALL consciousness, it's just more ordered within our minds, thereby causing the mind to be able to exist. The mind IS ordered particles of meaning, and when we look in the physical world to see evidence for what the mind is, we must fail because all we can see is the projection of that, the physical body and brain and neuron.
I was in danger of dying... the more I learned, the more I realized that we're not meant to know this. If we truly know it, as I did at the time, it is then a conscious choice whether to decide to stay 'there' and not come back, ever (insanity? death?) or to 'cleave unto' the 'dream' that you've been having and decide to continue dreaming it. I chose the latter. I had to concentrate part of my mind *at all times* on my memories of my reality, so that I could find my way back there.
This was the deepest experience of my entire life. And yes, it felt more real than my 'reality' that I'm back in now.
I almost died. I believe that. I had the strength to write some of it down, at HUGE COST, so that I'd recall the particulars today, and as soon as I thought that I'd written enough, I literally dropped to the floor to recover, *if I could.* I wasn't sure that I could recover... I might have gone too far.... but slowly, I did.
There's so much of it that I can't put into words. It's just not translatable.
The UAW and the Teamsters are what made Michigan the shithole that it is.
ReplyDeleteEd, it's yin and yang.
ReplyDeleteOkay, let me rephrase.
The unions are certainly capable of doing what you say they do. I believe you. They over-reach. As did the republicans this time.
However, you can't just remove them. Then it's imbalanced. They're needed as a counter-force. Their basic functions, which they themselves sometimes forget, are needed, like as in NOW. And if you look at them now, I think they're remembering that. I hope so.
Hey, we need a conservative AND a liberal party, too! Just now, the balance is skewed. It needs to be righted... (actually, 'left-ed!)
Watch Norma Rae sometime.... can you really root for the factory?
There is honor in the military, and there is honor in the union, because in both is the opportunity to both serve the weak and fight the strong who oppose that.
We just need balance restored. Killing the unions would not do that. Then the right would trample right over us, *you included!* You're just not RICH ENOUGH to matter to them, dude.
Unions gave us the WEEKEND, dude.
ReplyDeleteThey've done an awful lot of good. And a lot of harm, sure. That's humans for you. But without them, we'd all be living in a total shithole. Please don't forget that when you judge them by their faults.
Take away the unions because you think they've outlived their usefulness, is a lot like the libertarian stance that we really don't need civil rights legislation anymore, that we've grown out of it.
ReplyDeleteIn other words, it's bullshit. We've grown out of it because of the counter-force of the legislation being in place all that time, constantly exerting its counter-force. Take it away and it is natural that the other side of that force will wax and not continue to wane. In plain speak, the remaining racists, even if few in number, will sow their oats in the absence of that counter-force, and over time their numbers will grow. Soon we'd be right back where we started from.
Like I've said, 'You think nobody would patronize an overtly racist restaurant? BULLSHIT! Every racist in range would make it a MORAL IMPERATIVE to patronize it! It would THRIVE and soon even EXPAND to more locations.
(Caps for emphasis, not volume)
When I was 17 they changed the system in Britian from Imperial(I guess that's what they called it), Pounds, Shillings and Pence, to decimal, Pounds and Pence.
ReplyDeleteOvernight, corner stores doubled the cost of some items, relying on the confusion between old pennies and New Pence.
Unless money is tied to a fixed amount of a real thing, like gold, it's actually bits of paper and numbers on computers which we have faith in.
When they say that socialists are against small businessmen, trying to redistribute their wealth, they're lying.
They're conflating small businessmen with multi-millionaire businesses and billionaire businessmen and businesses.
They conflate your total worth with your annual earnings.
Anything to confuse the issue and mix things up.
The only reason they do this is to get small businesssmen like yourself on their side, but it's you that's going under the bus.
I don't think that there was any 'mistake' made by the banks by creating the housing bubble then bursting it. Romney gave it away. They want to be the guys who own everything and rents it out.
They couldn't own everything by buying it, that'd just push the price up. But there is another way. The banks made some horrible trades here and there making housing itself suspect, leaving millions over their heads, the housing market in crisis.
Who's to the 'rescue' here? All the guys who made money from kicking the housing market in the teeth. They buy up all the houses and rent out!
They become the cruel landlords kicking poor folk out on the street, or at least they hire people to do that for them.
There was too much wealth tied up in individual home-ownership and these greedy fucks are dreaming of taking it.
Getting you to vote for them so that they can play despot by telling you that socialism is actually totalitarianism is the big lie Ed.
Of course if you work hard you ought to share in the wealth, but this system is rigged so that those who work hardest earn the least. It's backwards.
Money isn't speech. Money isn't work either.
And we've seen that illustrated very recently. Two nights ago in fact.
ReplyDeleteWhat would have happened to the people of Ohio if there were no unions? They'd have been 'austeritied' to death ALREADY. Without having lobbyists, where else can the common man turn?
If there were no unions, we'd need to form them, and soon. Or else we'd go the way of Rome.
How long did it take for everyone to notice that the Reps. were crying, "Compromise, compromise.", to Obama, then turning around to the media and saying, "We're not budging an inch, fuck him!"?
ReplyDeleteNow, apparently Obama is being obstructionist 'cos he can't come up with a jobs bill that they can 'compromise' on.
If you believe this, then you likely believe that the Bush tax cuts and two wars WEREN'T detrimental to your deficit and your economy.
Who are you going to work for when everyone is broke Ed, and how much do you reckon you're going to be able to charge them?
First, I said that labor unions have all but outlived their usefullness, not that they should be abolished.
ReplyDeleteBut if they wish to continue being relevant, they need to do some adjusting to the prevailing conditions.
Would workers take a 20% pay cut to keep the jobs in American factories as opposed to somewhere overseas? The unions have all but refused to even listen to arguments like that. I'm not "anti-union" as such. But I think they've pretty much shot themselves in the foot and are loath to admit the error of their ways.
You can't be serious that "the weekend" is among your best arguments? As I said above, most of the things unions were organized to accomplish are now federal law, such as requirements to pay time and a half after 40 hours worked within a single week. Legislation has made it disadvantageous to work their labor force longer than 40 hrs/week.
Read this if you think I'm off-base...
Who are you going to work for when everyone is broke Ed, and how much do you reckon you're going to be able to charge them?
ReplyDeleteThey're already broke. That's why my busineddisn't thriving like it should. The guys who develop real estate can't get loans to build anything because there's no buyers for their product, i.e., new homes.
And the banks didn't "create" the housing bubble. We're ALL to blame. I'll bet you know at least a few people pre-2005 who intended to make loads of money by 'flipping houses'. There were scads of them out there. And there were oodles of "Mom-and-Pop" mortgage originator shops that would qualify literally ANYONE for a mortgage, because they would turn around and sell blocks of those mortgages to bigger banks, who turned around and sold blocks of blocks of mortgages to even bigger banks...
All because some financial geniuses figured out that the margin on mortgages (the "interest") was essentially free money to whoever held the notes. Banks loved this because it was "guaranteed" cash flow, from all the obedient homeowners who didn't want to get foreclosed on. "Mom-and-Pop" mortgage originator shops loved it because wenever they turned over a block of mortgages by selling them off to banks (for working capital), they had more money to lend out.\
The banks were NOT operating in a vacuum, Ian.
We're all guilty. Well, most of us. I didn't buy the mortgage shop's assessment that I could afford a $150,000 house when I had no traditional source of income being a full time college student. I shouldn't have qualified AT ALL, since I owned a house already in North Carolina (I still own it, and the house I'm living in).
I told the mortgage gurus that I could only afford HALF of what they assured me I could handle, and THAT'S why I never went into foreclosure: because I didn't greedily buy a house I knew I couldn't afford.
All because some financial geniuses figured out that the margin on mortgages (the "interest") was essentially free money to whoever held the notes.
ReplyDeleteAddendum: They called these things "Mortgage-Backed Securities".
Remember that? I do.
Getting you to vote for them so that they can play despot by telling you that socialism is actually totalitarianism is the big lie Ed.
ReplyDeleteDid I say I was voting republican?
No, I did not. If the GOP can't field a better candidate than Obama, I'll either abstain or vote Democratic.
Well, I wasn't trying to tell you how you vote Ed. I was just saying how they pretend they are, how a lot of people feel they are, what they represent, when they don't represent those they pretend to.
ReplyDeletewiki on Mortgage-Backed Securities
ReplyDeleteFor more edification (pun intended)...
ReplyDeleteThere's more...
ReplyDelete...and more...
Suffice it to say that the government thought (as far back as FDR's regime in 1938) that individual homeownership was the foundation of a prosperous economy.
ReplyDeleteWere they wrong?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe thing that stands out for me was the deregulation in various sectors that allowed the housing bubble to occur.
ReplyDeleteI don't really think there was some evil "Elders of Zion"-type conspiracy among the bankers and corporate captains to disenfranchise 'the little peepul'.
It may LOOK that way, but it's not in their best interests to cause such things. Poor people don't buy their stuff, and that cuts into profits.
Is anyone paying attention? Y'all's eyes are glazing over...
ReplyDeleteI hear you but disagree with the idea we are all to blame. The cause of this mess is because people were allowed to have loans that had no way to repay. This plan was to let the house markets do just what it did, become seriously over priced thereby drawing many home owners with good collateral in their homes to refinance. then what followed was exactly what happened to the farmers a few years ago. The farmers were talked into over extending themselves with large new loans then slam the door, and send many into bankruptcy, and the big guys moved in and bought the farms for much less than they were worth. It worked so well the same thing is happening now as the money peoples move in and we get homes to rent that were bought at fire sale prices. If you think this was not a plan to fleece the average home owner I think you are mistaken. It is done all the time in the business world that companies are intentionally put into bankruptcy to allow those on the inside to steal the company from the stock holders. There seems no end to the anti social behavior caused by greed.
ReplyDeleteBut if they wish to continue being relevant, they need to do some adjusting to the prevailing conditions.
ReplyDelete-------------
Yes. That is what I also think. Agreed.
List of TV shows about flipping houses:
ReplyDeleteBravo's Million Dollar Listing
Bravo's Flipping Out
TLC's The Adam Carolla Project
TLC and Channel 4's Property Ladder
A&E Network's Flip This House
TLC's Flip That House
TLC's The Real Estate Pros
If there wasn't a market for this stuff...
Like I said also: when the mortgage people told me I was pre-qualified (with no job, and no income as a full-time college student in 2005) to borrow $150,000, I told them "No, I can't afford that".
My younger brother gave me some unsolicited advice way back when, long before the crisis. He said to me, "There's two very good reasons why you should borrow to the limit of what they're offering. First, ral estate valuees always tend to increase over time (Ha! -Ed.), and second, you should expect your income to increase over time as well"(Ha! two times! -Ed.).
Did you read the stuff in the links, Jerry, or are you just upset that some people you know lost their homes?
Ask yourself: were they realistic about ability to pay vs. price of the home? Did they accept an adjustable rate mortgage with easy initial terms just to get their foots in the door without a down payment, then find out about the balloon payment when the bill hit the mailbox because they were too distracted to read the fine print? Would they have qualified if there was a mandatory 20% down requirement? Did they "harvest cash" out of their equity for vacations, new cars, etc., and end up with 2nd and 3rd mortgage liens on their property?
I told the folks that set up my mortgage "Fixed rate or no deal". And they listened to me. They tried to foist an ARM on me, but I wasn't having any of that.
...and I'm living in a dump (read: "fixer-upper") because I refuse to harvest cash from my equity. Both my mortgages (one on each of the two houses I own) are unencumbered (no liens), fixed-rate deals.
ReplyDeleteAll the more reason for government regulation. There are a lot of stupid people out there. Our choice, help them by making sure others can't take advantage of them (like they did,) or let them die, they're on their own. As much as option two might sound attractive to the person that believes in personal accountability, it would make us a very ugly country to live in in general. I don't want to see the starving homeless everywhere I look. I guess it all comes down to, whether a person feels okay about their income not being taxed in any additional way because others are starving due to their stupidity, or not.
ReplyDeleteI guess if one is into eugenics, the answer is option 1. Not for me, though.
Our choice, help them by making sure others can't take advantage of them,...or let them die, they're on their own.
ReplyDeleteI choose Option 1. Re-regulate giant corporations and banks. Fix the tax code so that corporations don't have loopholes to hide their profits in. Re-regulate the mortgage industry (it used to be regulated, see the links I posted above) so that people can't buy houses that they can't afford. Bring back Anti-trust laws to prevent corporate monopolies.
And while we're at it, let's make insurance as a business for profit illegal. Let's de-fang Big Pharma. Let's reform tort law, and get the lawyers off the backs of doctors and hospitals.
Unions can (and should) fix themselves if they wish to survive.
Is any of that gonna happen in my lifetime? I ain't holding my breath...
I think we all agree that most of the folk who got stuck with their pee pee in the wringer didn't think it through and were encouraged to not think it through by higher up the ladder.
ReplyDeleteThe small companies getting their clients in over their heads were being encouraged to get those clients over their heads and so on.
'Reality' T.V. shows helped no doubt, but that doesn't say anything about the guys at the top, only that the guys at the bottom were motivated by greed too.
Isn't that how all con jobs work though? The only trouble was that it was supposed to be a short-con and it went unnoticed for so long that the big guys who knew it was bullshit got in shit themselves out of pure greed, they were hoping it could go another round is all.
Having reduced or no regulation then complaining that you got caught up in everyone elses' greed is, surely, no excuse at all.
But they DID get bailed out.
Having reduced or no regulation then complaining that you got caught up in everyone elses' greed is, surely, no excuse at all. (I know you were talking about the boys at the top, peeb, but...)
ReplyDeleteIt is, if you prepared yourself for a decent career (I did), resisted the urge to indulge in the fantasy of owning a castle that you can't afford (I did), resisted the urge to harvest cash from your equity for home upgrades or wish-list items like vacations (I did)...
I still got fucked, just not as hard as the rest of you, apparently...
I had no loss. I tried to buy a house to fix and flip in 04 -05 but could not find the right deal. I want to fix a home right , and what was going on was a coat of paint, a little caulking and sell it. Home improvements has been my main job for 40+ years so knew what would work. When I met a ;person who was finding loans for people on their homes I found out what was going on. Everybody involved in the con, even if they did not know it was a con, was making lots of easy money. We are now paying the bill.
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame the american people on average aren't smart enough to have done that, Ed.
ReplyDeleteNow it's everyone's mess. But the gullible could have been protected, if it were not for the Big Banks setting them up to fail. So they were partially at fault for being stupid, but in this country, we take care of the stupid ones as well. I more blame the banks that had this great idea in the first place.
If it makes you feel any better Ed, those who were stupid enough to jump into the castle that they couldn't afford, are being punished for it now. If this doesn't teach them, nothing will.
ReplyDeleteYou didn't make the big mistakes and so you still have a home. That's a good thing, right?
Interesting trip. I wonder if according to what you are seeing would point toward us having life before this life, and forming the reality we see now? Like maybe our personalities are consciousness that has no beginning or end.
ReplyDeleteYou didn't make the big mistakes and so you still have a home. That's a good thing, right?
ReplyDeleteI suppose... but my career is on the edge of ruin, my house (as I said) is a dump, and I'm stuck here until I can fix the place up and sell (or rent) it.
And as you all know, there's hardly any place in the U.S. worse than Michigan right now. Especially anything north of a line drawn from Grand Rapids through Saginaw.
If I could leave, I would.
(well, to be realistic, I could leave; it's a matter of what the cost would be. If I abandoned everything and went drifter, I'd have a hard time re-establishing myself, but I could do it.)
Interesting trip. I wonder if according to what you are seeing would point toward us having life before this life, and forming the reality we see now? Like maybe our personalities are consciousness that has no beginning or end.
ReplyDelete-------------
At this point I don't know what it points to, but it was a very profound experience. If I were a christian, last night was the night I was born again, that's how profound it was. But I'm not one, so all I can say is that it was very real, and very profound.
What it *seemed* to point to is that we are all patterns of thoughts, of 'bits' of consciousness that is temporarily organized into a person and someday will disperse back into the random chaos 'out there' that just goes on forever... a random chaos of 'particles' or maybe more accurately 'bundles' or 'quanta' of thought, kind of like 'pixels of consciousness.' It seems to say to me that thought is all there is, all there ever was, and all there ever will be; all else is a construct made by our minds so as to make some sense out of chaos for a little while. I have seen the infinite chaos, and it is terrifying. At first. Looking back on it, I think I could handle it better the next time. I seem to not fear it. Even when I thought I might well die, it all seemed worth it. Strange, huh?
The problem is Jerry, that it is too close to what I already thought, so it's likely a mirage, a self-delusion, regardless of how (incredibly!) real it seemed. So I need to think of ways to test it. Which I will.
While it was happening a sentence popped into my head, as if from outside of me. As if someone else said it to me. At the time it seemed incredibly significant, so I wrote it down, but in retrospect it's not clear at all.
ReplyDeleteIt was this:
"We're all made up of little parts like this is the way that I should"
At the time, it felt like everything after the word 'parts' was descriptive of the parts themselves. As in, they each were simple concept type thoughts like the words 'like' or 'way' or 'I' or 'should.' As if the primitive building blocks of language, basic concepts like those words, were quite literally the building blocks of the universe itself.
...which is why I suspect that what I was sensing was not the universe, but only my mind.
ReplyDeleteWhich might be identical at some level... who knows? Might be... At this level, nothing is predictable by 'common sense.'
I'll keep you posted. If I solve the mystery of existence, you'll be the first to know.
Want a job as an apostle? The pay isn't that great, but the bennies are outstanding. Female groupies, er, believers....
Yeah, the sentence seemed to break after the word 'parts' even though the next word 'like' makes perfect sense in context. It wasn't "we're all made up of little parts like 'this is the way that I should.'" It was more like "We're all made up of little parts; Like, This, Is, The, Way, That, I, Should."
ReplyDeleteThat sentence felt earth-shattering to me at the time, literally. And now, it's kind of like mishmash.
IN an earlier, lesser 'vision' the night before I also encountered a sentence.
ReplyDeleteI was scanning a series of things that looked like, well, I can't describe them. Multidimensional things that even penetrated me, the observer. Maybe universes? Or my fantasies...
Anyhow, I came to one and it was, for lack of a better term, labelled. It may have had words printed on it, or more likely I was just interpreting it and the words popped into my head.
They were 'All different things.'
Again it seemed significant. It seemed like it was saying, this is the sphere, the universe, that you're used to. Your world that you know, your world of 'all different things.' Because things, do not exist there, except in the minds of those who are visiting.
So I stopped there, and I was back in my room. Snap!
Nifty, huh?
...which is why I suspect that what I was sensing was not the universe, but only my mind.
ReplyDeleteWhat could be more a part of the universe than your mind? At least the part of the universe that is real important to us. Perhaps you can discover if we can do just fine without it.
Remember when I spoke of 'the hall of phonemes' where it seemed like I was in a huge room, maybe even infinite, and all there was were these little sparkling dots, and as they sparkled I could *hear* simple words, all one-syllable?
ReplyDeleteI think it was the same thing as last night. I was seeing the structure of the place that I was visiting.... probably my own mind, but still, pretty wild.
Well, I can tell you this: There have been times on salvia that I was utterly disembodied, and also had no memories that I could access in that state. I had a consciousness, and it seemed that in that 'place' my mind had new memories and could perceive things that my normal mind could never perceive. These faded away when I came out of it, and I couldn't remember them, kind of like how I can't really remember the exact significance of that sentence I 'heard' last night. So it seemed to me that we, our sense of 'I AM,' is not dependent on having any memories at all. It's just there, regardless.
ReplyDeleteBut I DO remember, while in that 'place,' that I was amazed that I had no memories and was still 'myself.' That much is still clear.
ReplyDeleteI have this theory that your cellular consciousness, the individual consciousnesses of all of your cells, combine in some way to create your individual consciousness, your sense of "I AM." I've definitely felt that clearly, felt the many, many consciousnesses within me all combined into, well, me. I could clearly feel it.
ReplyDeleteSorry, went off on a metaphysical tear there.
ReplyDeleteNow returning to our regularly scheduled anti-christian diatribe spiced with the occasional spark of dark humor...
I wonder where Eric is. Sometimes I miss him.
I think it's clear that your brain and body are in contact and that they're pissed at you Brian.
ReplyDeleteLOL.. J/k.
Hey, you may be right!
ReplyDeleteI have to tell you, it's a really cool thing to be able to feel, tangibly feel, your consciousness originating from a zillion tiny sources rather than the usual sensation of it all being one unitary consciousness. It's a lot more of a gestalt, I think.
What time does a Chinaman go to the dentist?
ReplyDeleteTooth-hurtie!
Get it?
ror
(I'm an iriot)
Eric is here.
ReplyDeleteLOFR!
ReplyDeleteAnyone ever watch Drawn Together?
ReplyDeletePlerr!
ReplyDeleteToo funny!
Several times on this blog I have talked about intellectual religion. Recently I reread my short essay on the subject while doing an English class at UNLV, several years ago. Hope this helps clarify my view on the subject
ReplyDeleteAs a tree is to its shadow, so the religion of the spirit is to the religion of the mind. Because the religion of the spirit is a living reality, it is a personal experience in one's life, and leads into light, and freedom. Intellectual religion, religion of the mind, is belief about the religion of the spirit.
The religion of the mind endorses many wise, and beautiful ideas. Some of are, "Love your neighbor as you self, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, It is more blessed to give than to receive, Love your enemies, and God is love." The list of beautiful ideas go on and on, and are thought of , and expounded on by a great many people. To those involved with the religion of the mind it is more important what one believes than what one does. The religion of the mind a religion of authority endorses the Holy Bible as having absolute authority. The Holy Bible, by being a person's authority becomes his God, and they are then in bondage to the written word. When a person accepts mental concepts as an absolute authority he/she compromise their sovereignty of personality, debase their self respect, and become servants to intellectual ideas. Each person will at one time or another be forced to choose between his beliefs, and his own personal experiences, and it he chooses his beliefs over his experiences he does choose the way of darkness. Some of the fruits of the religion of the mind are, fear of being sentenced to eternal hell by a wrathful, and vengeful God, guilt feelings that often lead to mental breakdowns, wars, and other inhuman activities.
The old indian and daylight savings time.
ReplyDelete"When told of daylight savings time the old indian said, "Only the government could imagine that if you cut a foot off the top of a blanket and sewed it on to the bottom that you could have a longer blanket."
Mike said "He didn’t have anything to do with the new law why make a banner out of him?"
ReplyDeleteNo, he's been dead for two thousand years, of course he didn't. That would be just silly to think he could have an effect on reality two thousand years after his death. Crazy even...
If anyone is still trying to figure out the right's "position", it's pretty hokey.
ReplyDeleteHere it is, from the movie, 'Dune', "He who can destroy a thing, controls that thing."
What is the 'thing'? World economy.
Thing is that I believe that people can control economy in a way that the oligarchs don't.
ReplyDeleteObviously the oligarchs control the economy in a way that the 99% cannot.
Their job is to convince us that only they can control it.
Many believers are willing to agree with them through their proxy, God.
Nevertheless people are pragmatic when it comes to being trodden into the dirt.
I think that the old rich(pre 9/11) understood this, and the new rich(post 9/11) are willing to test).
Fuck you MI and Mike for being willing to kowtow to the rich in the name of GOD.
You're pathetic.
Brian, Have you given anymore thought to writing about empathy?
ReplyDeleteI have not, Jerry.
ReplyDeleteI don't know about writing about empathy. Who wants to read it? Those without it, can't see veracity in the words, won't read about it, too boring, too silly to them. They want to read something about how to take advantage of others, or how to get rich at the expense of others. Or the Bible,
Those with it, don't need to hear me talk about it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/13/gop-uncertain-economy-debunked_n_1088448.html
ReplyDeleteI hope I can convince you otherwise. A well written article, book, on empathy would be like pouring water on the desert. At first the water just disappears, but right away just under the surface life responds with new growth. Sowing the seeds of empathy will result in the acceptance by some that will be life changing. How many people that would have a life changing experience from reading what you wrote would it take to get you moving? I remember well the ideas I read in a book by Albert Schweitzer about the reverence for life that had a big impact on my growth, and I feel sure, especially after reading some of your statements on empathy, you words would make a major difference in lives of at least a few. I would guess you have read many works that had an impact on you. Suppose that all the authors of these works had thought no one will care so why do it.
ReplyDeleteI see what you're saying Jerry.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest I think talking here to christians (and elsewhere as well) has unfortunately taught me that a significant portion of the population is not interested in growth or bettering themselves in any way. The very idea is disgusting to them. It tends to de-motivate me. I used to think that I had something to offer humanity, but to be honest lately I'm more concerned with just living my life. They are happy to spin in their pathetic circles. I mean, look at Eric. Talk about a de-motivator for someone like me. I used to think that anyone with intelligence can be reached. Not so. Emphatically not so. He makes a mockery of intellect, reduces it to a mere tool in his arsenal of anti-atheist propaganda, an embellishment to stupidity. For an atheist like me, that's the closest thing to blasphemy there is...
Maybe someday.
I mean, intellect is supposed to be the light that banishes the darkness of stupidity, not something ancillary to the stupidity, something to promote the stupidity.
ReplyDeleteWhen I realized that people like Eric existed, I lost a lot of hope.
I think your most fertile audience would be people that go to church for awhile to try to find answerers that they do not understand the questions to. They go for awhile until they cannot take the hypocrisy any longer, so they quite only to try again, over and over. I think this is a fairly large group. Don't know that for sure but have known several that were caught up in that trip. If you should try writing, aiming at this group, I would advise to write in total positive about the results of empathy, with no mention that is negative toward religions except in a total generic way to make a positive point. Of course you could write to different audiences in so many ways, this could be a good solution for boredom. Get bored, write about empathy.
ReplyDeleteIan said,
ReplyDeleteFuck you MI and Mike for being willing to kowtow to the rich in the name of GOD.
You're pathetic.
------------------------
Ian you are so broken. How could you let your mind get SO screwed up?
The democrats have nearly destroyed this country in the name of handouts.
They and you act as if it is the responsibility of the wealthy to give their wealth away no matter how hard they worked for it. Let’s see There’s the food stamp program/ welfare/ free cheese/ the government draw/cash for clunkers/ tax increases/ big government/ spread the wealth and give it to the poor nations just because you fill they deserve to have what somebody else worked for/ the NAFTA program that has depleted America of it’s job’s and so on….
You’re ignorant !
I won't, and I have to ask, why you would savor this opportunity to kick me when I am down. Christians just can't resist a good schadenfreude session, can they? I knew you would respond when I mentioned what you *are.* You hate the truth, and need to subvert it at every opportunity.
ReplyDeleteYou are an aberration, an atrocity, to me. You are backwards intellect, perverted to illegitimate ends. You are the afterbirth killing the baby.
And you're happy about it.
Makes me want to vomit.
You’re ignorant !
ReplyDelete----------------
From you that holds as much weight as if a clam said it from it's burrow on the beach as we were walking by.
They and you act as if it is the responsibility of the wealthy to give their wealth away no matter how hard they worked for it.
ReplyDelete--------------
Yeah, real hard workers.
When part of that 'work' was to buy congressmen and senators to change laws so that they never had to pay their fair share anymore, it sours your point. What is happening, is unfair. Period. You seem to have been conditioned to like it that way. Since I assume that you are not a corporate CEO, it begs the question, who the fuck got to you? Who twisted your little head all the way around like that?
God? As interpreted by some shitheel corporate shill of a pastor, in thrall of so-called 'conservative values' which for some reason seem to tend to disenfranchise the poor, the very people that Jesus was so concerned about? Because it certainly wasn't Jesus who told you to love the rich so much that you wish you could kneel before them and lick their shoes. Jesus wasn't into the rich people, didn't you know? Oh, that's right, I forgot that you have no eyes to *read* either. You've been blinded by your ridiculous belief system. What a drone you've made of yourself. I'm sorry for you.
"Ian you are so broken. How could you let your mind get SO screwed up?"
ReplyDeleteJust reading this far I knew I was in for some real wisdom.
"The democrats have nearly destroyed this country in the name of handouts."
So all this unemployment has nothing to do with global corporations moving jobs out of your country then? Your country doesn't have a huge deficit because of the Bush tax cuts and the ongoing wars?
"They and you act as if it is the responsibility of the wealthy to give their wealth away no matter how hard they worked for it."
You know anyone who works hard enough to make a million dollars a year?
This is the way I look at it Mike. The rich basically 'hire' all your 'elected officials', they do what the rich want, so who should pay for it? Not hard working people no. Don't talk to me about taxes, Canadians pay way more in taxes than you guys, gas here is $1.30 a litre because of taxes, there's 14% sales tax on just about everything you buy here, but I don't grudge a nickel out of every tax dollar for out of work people to have a roof over their heads and a full belly.
The right wing government here is so 'cheap' that they won't build $100 a day units for terminally ill people so they have to take up $1200 a day beds at hospitals.
" Let’s see There’s the food stamp program/ welfare/ free cheese/ the government draw/cash for clunkers/"
What's wrong with these programs? Hey, you didn't mention the 4 billion that you guys give the oil corps.
" tax increases"
LIAR.
"/ big government/"
You mean like government in women's doctors offices? The money spent on drug testing everyone on welfare in Florida? Your giant army? Your enormous prison system?
Oh, maybe you mean your Teabagger congress getting paid over 14 grand a month each to reassure you that your motto is still, "In God we trust.", which essentially is saying that you don't trust anyone.
"spread the wealth and give it to the poor nations just because you fill they deserve to have what somebody else worked for"
Exactly how much of your taxes do you think goes to 'poor nations'? Christ, Mike, you don't want to spend money on your own country just 'cos Obama is your President.
"/ the NAFTA program that has depleted America of it’s job’s and so on…."
"Following diplomatic negotiations dating back to 1986 among the three nations, the leaders met in San Antonio, Texas, on December 17, 1992, to sign NAFTA. U.S. President George H. W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas, each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement, ceremonially signed it." - Wikipedia
Ah yes Mike, that notorious Democrat President George H.W.Bush. In fact not one of those people were left wing. Mulrooney was a Conservative and he was accused by the RCMP of some tricky dealing and successfully sued Canada for $60 million. What an asshole.
I don't understand why you prefer your crony capitalism 'working hard' to make the stinking rich filthy rich.
Some guy heading up a bank doesn't 'deserve' a yacht two football fields long, now really.
Mike doesn't remember that the Bush government, behind the scenes, used to call the evangelical christians 'nuts' but still took their money and votes.
ReplyDeleteYou guys, you're just too good at being sheep. People walk by and say to themselves 'why, there's a fat sheep that could use a good fleecing, let me pretend to like him and hate liberals...'
Pboy, what kills me is that christians are so stupid that they are willingly manipulated to hate people, something Jesus would never have done. They always seem to want to do the diametric opposite to 'WWJD.' Whatever Jesus would do, they hate. They hate loving the poor... hate giving to others... hate not being rich, not hoarding things for themselves... the only thing they have left that they seem to love, is hating others and finding new justifications for that. And all the while they believe themselves holy. They actually seem to believe they're following Christ. Amazing to me.
ReplyDeleteEver since Jesus said 'there will be poor always' while trying to get his apostles to understand that they should also appreciate what they do have and not just give it all to the poor and so become poor themselves, the faux-christians have said to themselves 'see, Jesus says it's okay to ignore them! Hooray! (Phew!)'
ReplyDeleteNeither Mike nor Eric are real Christians, in the sense of actually following Jesus Christ and his philosophy.
ReplyDeleteIt's a lie they tell when they say "I'm a Christian..."
They belong to a greed club that uses Jesus' name, that's all. And in Eric's case, a pederast greed club. They're all empty pride, blown up like balloons of egotism and self-assurance. No love though. They don't see it as a priority.
I think that Mike is trying to hang on to some kind of objective idea about what wealth is.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure it's what right-wing economists think they're doing when they spout their ideology in lieu of telling us what they really think.
A fair tax code would be described as a way of taking a man's wealth and sharing it with ne'erdo-wells, contributing to government waste, paying teachers to teach your kids evolution, hiring more police and firemen than is necessary and so on.
This is some kind of libertarian dilemma. With zero taxes, the very wealthy could afford to hire guards to police themselves, hire firemen to put out any fires on their property, pave only the roads that they drive on, and so on.
So where do we draw a line?
Surely there are many instances of the opposite being true. Wealthy people seeing the benefit of everyone chipping in to maintain highways?
But as in Texas, that gets 'warped' into, we all need the highway so we all pay, but since Texas isn't socialist we lend taxpayer money to a company who then create a toll road for their profit.
We can see that that's a bit unfair surely?
Point was that Mike sees things in black and white, he sees objective morals and values where there really only is intersubjective morals and values.
This idea that morals and values hang out in 'the mind of God, who is defined as 'goodness' and 'love', is a good excuse to endorse capital punishment, haggle over when life begins, at least try to criminalize homosexuals and atheists.
It's okay to elect a government that is dedicated to destroying the economy of it's own country though? That is a means to the end of social security, welfare etc. in a brave new 'every man for himself' world.
I wish there was some way to let them all have their way and then see what they have left, see how much they hate the result, all those moron who are really in the 99 percent but are the 1 percent's butt-boys. Have them see how they ruin the place and have to live with it, their kids going to lousy schools or to none at all, the roads all going to pot, the bridges falling down.... But unfortunately that would affect me and my family too.
ReplyDeleteToo bad we can't corral all the dipshiht religious conservative drones and put them all in Texas, THEN build a wall on THIS side. Let them trash the place all they want to.
I'd only feel bad for the mexicans that happened to live there, but hey, they'd be leaving for mexico probably since by then Texas would be a third-world country.
Losing Texas wouldn't be a loss, it's be a huge gain. I've lived there. As they say down there, it's as useless as tits on a boar-hog.
But Eric's just a playa, a wordsmith, a debater.
ReplyDeleteEvery thought that was ever thought, was thought in the confines of some sort of organic body.
Can we say this with 100% certainty? Of course not, but it is by far the most likely scenario.
Forget silly cosmological argument, even sillier moral argument, that's all diversion. If you don't get lost in that silly maze of reasoning, you're just not 'doing it right'.
We have no reason to believe that thought trumps material, that thought is some kind of 'other substance' which may create material.
Let me tell you how to make water into wine. You start with a vinyard. You water your grapes then press them then bottle them. After a while it is wine.
Oh, you mean 'instantly', 'magically'?
WTF. Why? Why not water into gold?
Wait, easy method of turning water 'instantly', 'magically' into wine.
Give person some water. Hypnotize them. Claim they are drinking the best wine they've ever tasted.
Voila!
New Post Is Up!
ReplyDelete