Friday, December 28, 2012


Fundies are amazing. One time a couple of years ago I was pointing out to one of them that other previous religions had saviors that died and were re-born, whose birthday was December 25th even, gods that said almost the same things as Jesus, such as Tammuz and Mithras and others, and what I got back blew my widdle mind... I've actually heard it more than just the one time since then, too... they were actually so stunningly idiotic as to say that since Christianity was the One True Faith, those other previous faiths *copied Christianity before it even existed!* That since Christianity was so huge and important, reverberations and premonitions of it's glory went back in TIME and so those other previous faiths merely copied it beforehand!

Stunningly stupid. Amazingly gullible. Laughably ridiculous... but they believed it. Somehow.

So I was thinking...  I was wondering what your own stories are of stunning fundie ignorance on proud display.  What was the most ignorant thing that you've ever heard a fundie say? 

Think hard, I know there's so much to choose from.

And to my religious readers, you also may participate, by telling us the dumbest thing an atheist ever said to you, or what you think science is most wrong about, or whatever you think is the dumbest thing about our side of the conversation.

Personally I'm thinking that the dumbest thing we on this side do, is attempt to show your side what isn't dumb.   It's unfair, like asking my pug to do my taxes.....


  1. But Brian, if you accept the premise that our minds are the only reality and they are being persuaded this way or that by the Godly and the Satanic, it becomes obvious.

    Essentially they're saying that although minds are obviously the most malleable 'substance' that ever existed, when it is 'set', it's set in stone.

    What we are saying it that 'the mind' is a process which is an effect of objective organic bodies in this objective material universe.

    Theists could as well be telling us to stand on our heads and shove food in our ass and crap out of our mouths, it's so ass backwards.

    Yea, but they think it's a matter of opinion.

  2. Steve, I'm thinking that you imagine that atheists are simply in need of 'guidance', YOUR 'guidance'.

    I'm also thinking that the comment I made on your site will automatically be considered 'blasphemy'.

    I'm thinking that your anti-robot measures 'type the following gibberish', will prevent my commenting since it has befuddled me in another, likely friendlier(to my opinion) blog.

    Furthermore, if you imagine that your faith is simply a matter of opinion, then we can simply agree to differ. Consider this. I don't think you can simply agree to differ, since, as far as I am concerned that(that we can/cannot simply agree to differ) IS 'the problem'.

  3. It's hard to pick a personal best but perhaps it was when a group of fundamentalists claimed that the entire fossil record and natural sciences were the work of satan, in a effort confuse the faithful. That was the point when I gave up trying to discuss stuff with them.

  4. Exactly Pliny, exactly!

    But the basic premise of religion is that we are 'minds', on trial by God(who is also a 'mind'), who concocted this natural universe to test us.

    What possible answer, naturalistic answer, to this, could possibly satisfy them?

    "Guess what, the universe is objective, perceived by us as space and matter, and we are also organic beings of matter and energy, beings that happen to perceive patterns, recognise patterns, and are prone to 'seeing' in them a pattern maker, simply a reflection of our own selves."

    That'll never do for them.

  5. Steve FinnellDecember 28, 2012 1:24 PM

    you are invited to follow my blog
    You have the process wrong, Steve. It is you that is invited to follow *my* blog. That's how it works. I don't do godspam.

  6. I've been really interested in sociopathy, but here's what bothers me about it.

    We applaud sociopathy.

    Now imagine your favourite songstress singing out to your heart, she knows your feeling, she knows, you know she knows, the emotion in that song, which speaks to you, which reflects feelings we all feel at times, "..I'm so tired of being lonely, I still have some love to give.."

    But that singer(Dead Roy in the case of the above line), he is thinking, "I'm hitting the notes, I'm conveying the feeling, pouring out the sensations I want my audience to feel!", he's NOT tired of being lonely, as far as we know, he's not feeling that he's not loved, as far as we know, no he's not, he's mimicking it.

    We applaud sociopathy.

    Now how would this song sound if Roy Orbison was actually feeling so lonely and tired of it that he was breaking up, actually breaking up inside? He'd NEVER be able to sing it.

    But isn't this exactly sociopathy? Being completely dissociated from the feelings that you wish to project on others?

    Isn't this exactly like, fucking exactly like a pastor projecting on you the idea that YOU should give money to GOD, to him(the pastor), isn't it? He needs to give us a good show! It's fucking showmanship!

    That's why they cannot diss what reasonable people recognise as 'bad' showmanship? Peter Popoff? He's an asshole! He's an asshole except he's not, not to the idiots who actually send him money for his ketchup-sized pouch of 'miracle water' that's going to do wonderful things for them(even if it's just in their own minds or coincidental).

    The line between 'real' religion and 'showboat' religion, well, there is no line, really, is there? If there was we'd be putting the Popoffs and Hinns in PRISON!

  7. I was seeing some of the comments on the last post and now reading these. I've known you dudes for about 5 years or so. Since Dinesh's blog. On a personal note, isn't great how he was exposed to be the charlatan we knew he was? Anyway, we are still going back to same arguments.

    As a Christian, a non-fundy and admittedly so, it still bothers me that you guys tend to read what Mike says or see what others do and sort of paint a picture that looks universal. And those guys also seem to paint Atheists, Agnostics and Christians like me in the same kind of universal picture as well.

    I still stand by my belief that people like Mike who read the Bible in a literal way are no different from the Atheists who read the Bible in a literal way. One turns out like Mike, and the other may turn out like Brian who despises it. One has a fear to believe it and the other sees it as silly and a brain washing tool.

    But, if it's read the way I believe it was intended to be read, then there could be a different holistic view of it. Some would believe as I do, but also act more inclusive with people instead of exclusive. Judgements on others would subside. And I believe many on the opposite end could still think it's silly, but not have so much distaste for it. Unfortunately, organized Religions focusing on Literal interpretations hurt the cause and hold back people who actually want to learn about their faith and the spiritual lessons and consequences laid within it.

    I was watching something the other day. I think it was on the Science channel or ID. There was this Child Psychologist and he did an experiment on two sets of 9 year old's. There was this dart board on the wall. There was a white line of tape on the floor 5 feet in front of the wall. The kids had to turn their back to the wall and the throw the sticky balls with their opposite hand over their shoulder. No one made it. And the Psychologist left them alone in the room and there were cameras rolling but the kids didn't know it. Every kid in the first set cheated and picked up sticky ball and put it on the board.

    The second set of kids were given the same rules. But there was an empty chair against the wall. They were told that there was an invisible woman (a deceased princess) who was a friend of the Psychologist that would be sitting in the chair and would report to the Psychologist is any of them cheated. The kids were like "yeah right", "there is no one in that chair". When they Psychologist left the room, each kid failed like the first set. However, every time they wanted to pick up the ball off the floor, they looked at the chair. And none of them cheated.

    We are born to place meanings and importance on things. Because of this, we can be led astray. Especially by Pastors and Religious leaders. Especially them. And it sense we have this way about us programmed in us, it can happen to us at any time. Look at the Jones followers. Most of them met him as adults.

    So we must read what's written for what it mostly is. And it's mostly allegory with a lot of spiritual lessons. And nothing that gets discovered or what Science finds and identifies can hurt my faith. It cannot hurt what I've learned spiritually. Instead, it enhances it. It gives me a better understanding of the system God created and the wonderful things that continue to develop in it.

    Happy New Year's everybody.

  8. I still stand by my belief that people like Mike who read the Bible in a literal way are no different from the Atheists who read the Bible in a literal way.

    Botts; I've missed you. Anyway, you fail to understand that if someone reads the bible in a literal way, as an atheist, if you are going to argue with them at all, you have to take the bible however they take it.

    What am I going to say to Mike, it's a metaphor, but you've got it mostly right? Even if it is and is divinely inspired, he doesn't...

  9. Ryan, I've missed you too. Hope your foot feels better.

    You're right. I understand that you can only counter by how they read and define it. But the problem is that there really can't be any tangible understanding. And it sucks.

    As you know, I've spent a ton of time in Nigeria the last few years. More than here. There was this Company in Kansas that wanted to partner with me and have me bring their services and products to Nigeria. So I brought them over, took them around and showed them what I safely could. They were also fundamentalists and when it comes to business I tend not to talk Religion and Politics.

    However, they were there on a Sunday. And they asked me if I was a Christian which I told them I was. I also told them that I am Non-Denominational. But there is a Church I just love to go to when I'm there. And these guys wanted to see and experience where I went.

    Let me tell you, they were "literally" blown away. I don't think they've ever experienced a Church service like that. Service was at 8 a.m. The first 45 minutes was just praise and worship. Lots of songs. Dance if you want to. I love that Church because their Band is unbelievable and the Choir rocks out. Great Singers.

    They then do announcements for the coming week for 15 minutes via a video. Then the Choir and Band does a couple planned songs which always turns out great because they have a "jazz" element to the songs. And I love Jazz.

    The Pastor came up and spoke about Corruption in Nigeria. How it started. Why it hasn't been corrected and one of the reasons he mentioned is that people who call themselves Christians don't do what they should. If they believe God is speaking through them or guiding them and giving them sound spiritual principles to live by along with the various Teachings Jesus taught, then they should make a difference with their neighbors. Not necessarily entering politics. But in their workplace and out in the day to day things. Stop trying to get over on your neighbor. Which is the main problem there.

    It lasted 20 minutes. Then to bring it home, the Band rocked out a few songs. Tithes or Offerings happened and we ended the service with a Prayer for the day and week.

    This Church has two services each Sunday. And the auditorium is packed with 5,000 people during both services. And this is a non denominational Church. Most of these members came from the various denominations over there and just happened to go there with a friend or whatever. And stayed after that. But they have great programs for the community and what not.

    To conclude, the guys that were with me said they have never experienced something like that. They were just completely in shock. Now, I didn't know if that was a good thing or bad thing but during the later parts of the day, it looked as if it was a good thing.

    I told them that this isn't a "Nigerian" thing. There were several Churches I told them about in the area where they are from in Wichita that have these same kinds services. I don't know if they ever went.

    Harvey mentioned something which is true. People usually say what they're taught from their Pastors. And in these Literal Institutions, it's mostly negative and judgmental teachings. And that's sad. It still bothers me to this day because it doesn't have to be that way.

  10. As a Christian, a non-fundy and admittedly so, it still bothers me that you guys tend to read what Mike says or see what others do and sort of paint a picture that looks universal.
    I suppose it would, Botts.

    I know a few good christians, you among them, and there are many churches that seem to more live by Jesus' words than the sound of their own egos wailing like infants.... There are many good churches and groups. However, I rarely see them calling out their straying brethren as loudly as they perhaps should be. The real fundies are spoiling their credibility so you'd think they'd be a bit more vehement about it, try to get more people to realize what an actual Christian is rather than the common false 'little-c' variety that is so profligate nowadays.

    I don't feel so much hatred for them anymore, and I'm a lot calmer about the whole thing, but I still like to point out their ridiculousness. Mike tends to get me steamed, but I'm not really angry at him, I just don't pull punches. I can't see a reason to do that.

    Anyhow, good to have you around, dude!

  11. and there are many churches that seem to more live by Jesus' words than the sound of their own egos wailing like infants...


    Mike totally epitomizes some of "Jesus' words". The tribalistic, racist ones anyway.

    The whole "jesus was awesome but modern christians don't get him" thing really bugs me. Just read the gosples for petes sake.

  12. Mike totally epitomizes some of "Jesus' words". The tribalistic, racist ones anyway.
    Are you saying Jesus was a racist or held a racist opinion toward some and I am following in His footsteps?

    Hi Botts glad you are back once again.

    The difference between Botts and myself is this. Botts has what I would call a modern interpretation of scripture especially on his views concerning the church and it’s practice.
    From the information Botts has offered the non denominationalist are what we refer to as charismatics… their church services are sort of like how people get carried away at a football game no difference really because neither are worshiping God in Spirit.

    It is not my intention to insult or offend you Botts, But from what I can see your worshiping of God is not in harmony with scripture.

  13. Mike:

    From the "outside" looking in ( Iam not nad have never been a Christian)......
    " But from what I can see your worshiping of God is not in harmony with scripture."
    As I have recently tried to point out, "your" interpretation of Scripture is the culmination of all of your upbringing and the myriad times a pastor/preacher/parent/apologist has "taught" you how to interpret it. An atheist like me, for example, may have studied the Bible and other religious writings, researched what philosophers and apologists have had to say, and, if he/she is sincere and honest in "interpreting" it, may arrive at conclusions as to the meaning and/or truthfulness of said writings. The unfortunately uncommon type of Christian that I think Botts represents seems to have done the same, applied his conclusions to his life experiences, discarded those "teachings" that do not seem to fit or be correct (in his own mind) and then, and only then, arrived at his interpretations. If, in additon, such a person has been given the "gift" of a true faith experience, how can one criticize his understanding? You seem do so only from the rigid "interpretations" that you have been taught to the exclusion of any other viewpoints (Heresy/blasphemy!!), as a result of which you are totally unable to even conceive that Botts or anyone else might actually be closer to the truth of things than you believe you are! It is on these grounds that many of here despair that you can ever see beyond your rigid version of "real" Christianity, let alone consider the possibility that any atheist might be just as sure and sincere in his/her lack of belief.

  14. Hi Mike,

    Great to hear from you. Hope you and your family had a wonderful Christmas and I wish you a fruitful New Year.

    Thank you for your honesty and your views on this matter. No offense taken because what you described is not what I experience.

    I've been to the charismatic Churches. Like the Pentecostals. Though I can see my description of the Church I like going to in Nigeria being confused as one of those, my experience is quite different.

    We don't look at Scripture as a modern Interpretation. Because that would be impossible considering no modern knowledge that we have come to known is in Scripture. Rather, we take it for what it is. Written in a limited language with limited characteristics for a population that was once 98% illiterate. Mostly 100% spiritual in Nature.

    It challenges us to recognize what we are. And what we have within us. And that is the ability to be a part of true evil, be our own worst enemy, and be taken advantage of from people with evil and controlling agendas.

    It's why you have many named Christians following Idolatry more so than Christ' teachings. Hitler used this love of Idolatry and exclusiveness to do the things he did in Germany a nation dominated by Christians. But they felt exclusive. They felt persecuted by the outside world and he made them believe that they were entitled to everything they wanted. And millions died because of it.

    That's why it's important to challenge yourself to first show gratitude to your creator for the daily lessons we learn and then to adhere to the best of your ability to what Christ teaches us. Back when these lessons were being taught, everyone thought he was nuts. Same general things were happening then as it does now. Divisiveness, Idolatry, Exclusiveness and being a part of something exceptional were are all challenged by Christ as fraudulent behavior counter to what we can be.

    Remember, when we are preached to, we are being preached to other fallible humans. Thirsty for control and easily influenced by their own influential gifts.

    So the Churches I like to attend and I don't go every week, are the ones that focus on praise and gratitude. Through songs and prayer. And then I like to hear messages that challenges the listener to look within and see if we are in fact letting go of our entitlement desires and looking to help others. And it's not about charity. Are we helping someone just by listening to them? Maybe extending gratitude or offering well wishes. Are we doing everything we can do each day to make a difference. Because true witnessing is not by repeating the same platitudes. It's by our actions. Because those actions can sprout off other actions. And that can increase productive spiritual dialogue.

    You should feel good at Church. Not bad. You should go there and enjoy showing praise and gratitude. It's not about who's in the room with you or how many people are there. It's about yourself. And your relationship with your creator.

    I moved to Delaware in July. And the Church that I go to has 25 members. But the praise and worship is right. The messages are on point. And I enjoy being there.

    There is no charismatic behavior. No sunglasses on the preacher with hands shaking and snakes being passed around. But the lessons are spiritual because we believe our spirits exist outside of the physical world and will be what's left over when we physically perish. So as Christ said, it matters what we physically do and how we physically think because it effects our spirits.

    Great to hear from you Mike. It's been a long time.

  15. When you think about it there is an amazing cross section of theology represented by the usual suspects of this blog. We have anti-intellectual christian dogmatists, pseudo-intellectual apologists, charismatic Christian theists, libertarian theists, new age deists, agnostics, atheists, and reductionists to name a few. It's certainly a cross section of North Americana.

    So many variations on a theme of trying to rationalize perceptions, experiences, fears, childhood indoctrination, etc.

  16. The whole "jesus was awesome but modern christians don't get him" thing really bugs me. Just read the gosples for petes sake.
    Baby steps, Ryan, baby steps. Jesus did say a lot of good words, and they do not follow those. So I concentrate there. It's the most obvious and blatant area of hypocrisy and one would think they'd be able to see it. I realize that Jesus also said a lot of not-good words and did stupid things like cursing fig trees and being okay with boy sex slavery and all.
    If we could only get them to actually follow Jesus' words, it would still be a huge improvement, no? Instead of making up their own version of what Jesus *meant* to say.

  17. Mike totally epitomizes some of "Jesus' words". The tribalistic, racist ones anyway.
    Really? I more see mike as a pharisee.

  18. I also have to disagree with the notion that atheists take the Bible literally. Ignoring all the science and progress we have made since these passages were coined, one of the biggest flaws I see in the supposition of the Bible's holiness is the absence of cultural transcendence. Ignore the bits that make it easier to join the church and promises of something better post mortem, where are the leaps of social progress? Equality of women, abolition of slavery, human rights, political freedoms? The Bible largely seems like a document for its time not one that crosses history.

  19. Religion by its nature, seeks to keep things the same. It fears all change. Most of all, it fears personal freedom and secular education. It does not brook questions that probe its truth or falsity.

    It is such an obvious ploy to not allow believers to question it... it's so obvious that it realizes that it cannot stand up to questioning, so it seeks to punish and terrorize those that dare to.

  20. Hey Botts, here's one for old times sake:

    The Bible is evil!

    Ahh, those were the good old days, huh?

    Love you dude, even if you haven't completely escaped the conditioning... you're still a good man, and that's what counts.

  21. We used to have a charismatic church near us... we could hear them singing on the weekends... my dad used to call the 'the holy jumpers.'
    It's really one of the funniest things he ever said.

  22. If it is of any interest, I have engaged with the Steve Finell blog. So far, although my initial post was allowed, I have been disussing things entirely via E-mail. It already appears that his definiftion of "proof" of the historicity of Jesus is all of the old, tired and mostly falt untrue accounts of early "church fathers' and more recent apologists who refer back to the same.

  23. BTW, Happy New Year to one and all!!

  24. Indeed Harvey, to take it to the ridiculous, there must be a Santa Claus, there just has to be, because my mom, dad, g'pas and g'mas, uncles and aunts, they'd NEVER LIE TO ME! NEVER!

    I'm slaying Pastor Dan on here:-

    He's pulling the old 'universal morality' saw.
    But morality is an abstract concept and it's been different for different groups through time. Different for different groups supposedly under the same 'universal morality' spell, for Christ's sake, for Allah's sake and for Yahweh's sake!

  25. Can you guys see this?!/photo.php?fbid=442196912500903&set=a.442196819167579.106670.100001317952032&type=1&theater

  26. I can't. I'm not on facebook though, so that's probably why.

  27. I went to your argument with Pastor Dan, pboy, and you were right; you are slaying him, and you're doing it in a nice manner even. Fun to read. He's sort-of boxed in. I love it how you tell him beforehand what his options in answering you are so that when he takes one, tries to evade or change the subject, you tell him 'yeah, you had to do what I said you'd have to do..' Pretty neat.

  28. Yea, not a leg to stand on, but they insist that's just 'your' opinion. He so thinks that he can just fall back on his presuppositions, but they're all just crap he's been taught and he knows it, we know it, he knows we know it.

    If he's really a pastor though, he's basically arguing for his living, so there's no way out for him.

  29. Okay, here's something I think is important when talking to scholastic philosophers like Eric.

    There's two ways of talking about stuff. We can take a moment in time and talk about it, there's you and I, two 'things', we are two separate things, two people, unchanging, stuck in that moment forever, in our minds as we consider them.

    We move on to discussing what is contingent and what is necessary and we're not talking about things stuck in a moment in time anymore, we're talking about how everything changes through time, processes.

    But it, the idea of a 'thing' has been set up in your mind, a hypnotic technique, "Think of something this way! Now, look at it from another perspective, in a way that it's not a 'thing' at all, but a process!"

    But if we were being honest, we wouldn't change perspectives like this pretending we hadn't changed perspective at all, pretending that we could talk about a thing as if it's frozen in spacetime to set you up to talk about it as it was or will be, a la, it's contingency or it's potential.

    Eric can go round in circles and round in circles and round in circles 'til one of us said 'uncle'.

    I, being a stubborn S.O.B. won, not because I beat him at any of his arguments, no. I was simply, obviously, willing to keep it up, without end.

    Basically the 'wearing you down tactic' didn't work.

  30. I used to wonder how you had the patience to continue to use logic and reason against him. I stopped trying that, since it seemed to me that it was always a stupid trap in one way or another.

    That guy is one dishonest person, if I've ever seen one. One wonders if he even lies to himself, because he's so talented at it that he'd never realize it if he did.

  31. I honestly do wonder if Eric sees what he does as lies, or if he's lied to himself about that too and believes he has the truth. Do you think he even knows that he's become a professional theistic bullshitter?

  32. Since all his histrionics only really gets him "theism is possibly true" and he never goes into details about how he gets from theism to Catholicism, I think he's obviously starting with a desire to believe.

    Based on his comments and his online identity, I think he's someone who needs the structure and discipline of his philosophy and church to be the person he wants to be. But it's a wonder he didn't find Islam...

  33. Happy new year to all. 2012 pretty much sucked. Hopefully 2013 will be better.

    Harvey, you are a better man than I. I read the first installment on that other website and when I reached the old lies about evolution, I tuned it all out.


    Kaballistically 2013 reduces to six, the number of balance and harmony, so let's hope!

  35. I don't think it is lies, it's bullshit. It's like that apologist who declares that Nazareth was a Jewish community until the 4th. Century! This doesn't tell us when that area became a Jewish community. If you want to imagine that Nazareth was a continuously thriving community from 500 B.C.E. that's just dandy as far as the apologist is concerned.

  36. Pliny:
    He has so far referred me to lengthy postings that deal with Josphus (in exhaustive detail) going into the well known controversies about the added forgeries that suggest that the Jesus he alledgedly spoke of was real and, most important, that claim that Josephus wrote the passages about resurrection, all of which were clearly added much later. This was in response to my suggestion that his statement that Jesus has been historically documented might be false and unproven, opther than by Biblical references. I have chided him back that if Josephus is the best he's got, then he is already dead in the water. Still waiting for a response to this last.
    Oh well, it is one way to fill the time before I go back to work on Wednesday.

  37. Josephus is just proof that from the very beginning Christianity has been based in deception and outright lies.

    He's one of their favorite lies.

  38. Sometimes it hits me... what a huge scam religion is. It boggles the mind.

  39. "Let us help you not kill your baby!" -Fundamentalist lady to my girlfriend and I on our way into Planned Parenthood

  40. "Let me help your mother do what she should have done and give her an incredibly late term and long overdue abortion right now if you take one more step closer"

    -What I would have said back to her.

  41. That blows big time. A guilt trip. It must work sometimes.

  42. Thanks Bri, and Happy New Year to you as well.

    I'll keep what I said to her to myself for now. It was some years ago and not my proudest moment.

  43. Can't imagine any of us would have not been proud of you.

  44. Well Harry did you and your then girlfriend kill your unborn child?

  45. Mike, you disgusting troll; why do you think that is any of your business?

  46. Mike, you are a real piece of shit. Not just any piece of shit either.... you are like the refuse on a farmer's boot after he walks through a pig's afterbirth. And you're proud of it.

    I fucking hate christians like you, I really do. Every time I think I am getting over it, I see one of those dog-cock-suckers say something like you just did. Go give your buddy Fred Phelps another rimjob and leave us alone.

    Go to hell where you belong.

  47. "So I was thinking... I was wondering what your own stories are of stunning fundie ignorance on proud display. What was the most ignorant thing that you've ever heard a fundie say? "

    Comment number 46 would seem to set the standard by which all other 'stunning ignorance on proud display' should be measured.

  48. Sorry for my outburst, but sue me, I didn't expect a christ-stain to come on and do precisely what we were all talking about as something really horrible.

    But ya know what, I meant what I said. Fuck you, Mike. What a piece of refuse.

  49. I'm not in favor of abortion but I am now in favor of christian abortions, that's for sure... the less of those fuckers we have, the better.

  50. Of course by far MOST abortions are gotten by christians, so that's a good thing... they need to be culled. Like deer on an island.

    To be honest, I tend to lump them (people that say things like Mike just said) in with Nazis, as far as how much I despise them is concerned. Same animal, different times.

  51. Oh calm down Brian you freaking baby.

    You self righteous hypocrites talk about how the Israelites took their children and bashed their heads upon stones and turn right around and excuse them that will take their unborn children to planed parenthood and be sucked out of their mothers womb. You people have a double standard ….one for yourselves which is mostly a self-righteous, and one for Christians which you hate, mostly because you see yourselves in them.
    Brian you have an ego that is out of control… Take this cyber slap in the mouth you pest.

  52. Mike, you disgusting troll; why do you think that is any of your business

    I’m disgusting? Then what would you call someone who kills their unborn baby?

    It is people like me who have empathy for the lives and rights of unborn children all you crazy bats can go jump in a lake of fire and brimstone.

    Harry was the one who brought it to a public site to be committed on dork.

  53. Of course by far MOST abortions are gotten by Christians
    Well Brian considering there are more Christians then there are Atheist that would be understandable.. What puzzles me Brian is you didn’t think of that…. yet you always try to pass yourself off as some big thinker.
    Rubber / glue…. Or should I spell it out for you?

  54. Let me spell this out for you. You disgust me. Like feces. You pretend christian hypocrites let kids die every day because they're too poor to have a life, even to eat. Your concern for the unborn is at the expense of the born. You are worthless hypocrites that are responsible for more death than life, and your pretend concern for the unborn is disgusting in the light of how you lack all normal empathy when it comes to the poor and downtrodden and the sick and elderly... you even let our veterans fend for themselves. You don't care if the vets fucking die after they're done fighting for your worthless asses. That's how you fucking VOTE, asshole, so all your words are farts in the wind. When someone decides to have an abortion, it's very fucking PAINFUL and so to compound that by throwing disgusting guilt trips at them is just sickening. If it were me and you came up and said that to me and my girlfriend, I'd knock you on your ass in a fucking heartbeat and not even feel the guilt that I'd feel for killing a tick. Ticks are more worthy of life than you are.

  55. I watch your most rabid anti-gay politicians foam at the mouth over their hatred of gays, and then they get caught with a rentboy or taking a wide stance in a mens room...

    HYPOCRITES! You're a bunch if psychotics who think they shit ice cream and look down on others just to prop up your pathetic lie of a self-image, because you can't let yourselves know that you're actually sucking the devil's cock when you think you're doing God's work on earth. You've become so good at pretending that you're the good guys, that you've allowed yourselves in your pride to become the actual evil in this world. And you do it all with a smile. A very ignorant, smug, supercilious smile.

  56. I watch your politicians rail and foam at the mouth and cry out for the lives of the unborn and for the sanctity of marriage, and then they get caught insisting that their mistresses get an abortion so it doesn't complicate their for-show marriage or ego-fueled career. That is what is called a 'worthless piece of shit.' Mostly it's the hypocrisy, the reeking, foetid hypocrisy, of you stupid, ignorant fucks talking like you're Jesus and acting like the living demons that you've allowed yourselves to become in your overweening pride. I'm fucking sick of you and your kind, totally sick of you, so go fuck yourself, if you haven't already...
    Sincerely, Brian.

  57. Well, Brian, I'm sure you feel better now that you've gotten this off your chest. I know that I feel better just having been able to read it and I never, in my best days, could have called Mike out for what he is as vividly as you have just done. Thank you!
    I guess I have been even more gullible than you may have been, inasmuch as I actually thought Mike might have a sincere interest (at last) to at least consider the possibility that an understanding of basic embryology might let him see its relationship to what we know of evolutionary development and speciation. He is, after all, only a Christian Fundy troll, looking for opportunities to rain down Fire and Brimstone upon us, in hopes that he will thereby lay up "treasures" in Heaven, or, at the very least, shore up his own uncertainties about his hoped-for salvation.

  58. I would love nothing more then to see you face to face and you try to knock me on my ass you sorry excuse for a man.

  59. Your comments are filled with hate towards anyone who disagrees with your fake ass. It will be a cold day in hell before I ever visit your blog again. ps buy a fire suit you'll need it you poser....

  60. I’m not the one who sends you baby killers down the road of guilt. The burden of guilt is so heavy you can’t stand it when someone points out how wrong you were to do what you done to an innocent one.

    This is good by .

  61. Mike:

    Wow!! What a great Christian you are!! "love thy neighbor", "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord", "turn the other cheek", "Judge not, lest ye be judged", "cast the mote out of your own eye..." and, best of all "Do unto others...."
    You have certainly showed us poor, benighted sinners the error of our ways by how well you follow Christ's teachings. Your behavior has finally allowed me to see the error of my ways! Thank you, thank you, thank you... and God Bless!!

  62. Ah, Mike comes here to scorn us.

    I wonder how much of that need to scorn others is the old 'shit runs downhill' thing? Holy Mike has, in us, a kind of captive audience, but he's not here to convert us, he's not here to evangelise, no.

    It's kind of a puzzle, because Mike knows that when he comes on here he's going to be ridiculed and called ignorant and evil even.

    Harry's remark was very strange to me, in that it seemed so much of a setup for Mike's righteous wrath, don't you think?

    But my main head-scratcher is, if Mike comes here to ridicule us, but to do that he knows that he will endure a blizzard of ridicule, I don't get what's really 'in it' for him.

    My diagnosis is that Mike feels guilty about his carnal feelings. He enjoys looking at women's breasts, bums, a hint of pussy, yumyum. at least! At most, Mike loves porn, completely addicted, sits in front of his monitor choking the chicken like it owes him money, until, well, he has to blame SOMEONE for this terrible state of affairs, right?

    Enter Mike into Brian's blog, looking to find guiltier-than-thous. And here we are waiting for him, admitting that we're baby killers, how vile of us, since at least he's only spilling his seed on the ground, or into some blow up doll's pouch, or, what, use your vile imagination!


    Wait, then there's Eric, who also wants us to know how horrible baby killers are... hmmmm.

  63. Ryan, I’m disgusting?

    Yes, a disgusting troll. But that was just the salutation, you did not answer my question.

  64. Oh Mike, gee, you're leaving us? Oh, woe is me! A pernicious asshole doesn't want to insult atheists any longer! I'm crushed!

    The man that voted for cutting benefits to destitute children and their single mothers, and for shredding the social safety nets, and for taking the money from these people and handing it over in a big box with a ribbon on it to the very rich, the man that never spares a thought for the plight of the poor, the man that asks us, nay, tells us, that we are killing poor babies by aborting them when he proudly has but one plan for them after they are born, which is for them to have a life of misery in which a good percentage of them will die before they even reach adulthood, the man that has no plan for what would happen if abortion became illegal except to even cut benefits more for their parents to ensure that they have a life of malnutrition and if they live long enough, gang violence and drug addiction, the man that wants to see abortion made illegal but has NO PLAN for all the resulting ACTUAL, BORN BABIES in the country other than 'wing it, kiddies' is coming down on ME morally.
    You're such a flaming hypocrite asshole, Mike, that to me, your disapproval is tantamount to God Himself coming down here and telling ME that I'm right and that you are a useless, pathetic, mis-led pharisee.

  65. ps buy a fire suit you'll need it you poser....
    Hell is living in a world where hypocrites like you make the rules. I'm already there, and you are too, only you are the hired help.

  66. Caring about aborted babies is not a bad thing. I don't like the idea of abortion either. Nobody does. However with christians it has become a talking point, not a moral stance. How can you tell? Because it's one of the few things they care about, the only solitary instance that they take a stand in favor of life of any kind, and other than that they show a total and complete disregard for all other living things, human and otherwise. Christians start the wars, destroy the land, pollute the earth, destroy animals at a whim or for sport, love guns more than babies that are already born, and loathe the poor and downtrodden. If they were offered a choice wherein all abortions were ended but they'd have to give up their guns, they'd keep the guns.
    Mike, if you were honest enough, you'd admit that. Guns or unborn babies? You'd pick guns in a heartbeat if that was the choice, and it wouldn't even be close, and you know it.

    Mike is just one twisted fuck in a whole religion chock full of twisted fucks, run by even more twisted fucks, who pretend to morality because they can't face the fact that by their actions they can be easily seen to be utterly bereft of all real morality, all empathy, and all humility. They talk the talk of morality, albeit a false version, all the time, but when it's time to act they are too busy still talking about how good they are and how evil everyone else is, to actually act in anything resembling a moral manner.
    To me the area where they SHOULD see that they are not moral, is how they treat our veterans. They talk like the vets are saints, and pretend that they love them, all the while voting for NOTHING that might help them survive. So homelessness and disease are MORE COMMON among vets than in the general population, unemployment among vets is HUGELY more than among regular people, and the christians are satisfied because they after all, did pay them lip service.
    Lip service is all you're ever willing to pay for a moral outcome in the real world. Your actions prove you false and hypocritical in the extreme.

  67. Well, Brian, I'm sure you feel better now that you've gotten this off your chest.
    Actually Harvey, I feel shitty about it. He got to me. I try not to let that happen anymore. If he'd have insulted me I could have dealt, but seeing him insult a friend is not something I could tolerate. I'm sick of these moral poseurs.

    And see how "poseurs" is actually spelled, Mike? Now go ahead and forget it again immediately, since you have no room in your skull for knowledge amongst all the false beliefs stored therein...

  68. I would love nothing more then to see you face to face and you try to knock me on my ass you sorry excuse for a man.
    Oh yeah, that's right, you'd probably kick my ass, since I'm sure you know how to hurt people. It's really all you christ-stains are good for in the world. I'd still pop you in the mouth and take the consequences... it'd be worth it just to feel what it feels like to actually smite the wicked.

  69. I remember in the debates in the rep primaries, there was this soldier, fighting to keep all our asses safe in Afghanistan I think, who asked the panel of idiots about how they'd vote on gay rights because the man happened to be gay, and then I saw an incredible thing; the losers in the audience, christian the lot of them, actually BOOED the man! And in another debate, said christian assholes cheered Rick Perry for having the highest number of EXECUTIONS in his state! '
    These are evil people. How can they be so very evil as to cheer death and boo one of their protectors who is willing to die for their sorry asses?
    Simple. They do not believe that they are evil; instead they believe they represent the Very Highest Good, like they are God's messengers on Earth. Believing you are that good, is how you can get to be that evil.

  70. See, according to people like Mike, I absolutely have to be evil because I disagree with them, and they are certain that they are good!

    It cannot occur to them that I might be right. Because that would mean that they are not good, and that's not even possible to them, because hey, they know they're good! It's astonishingly ignorant sure, but there you have it. So they can get pissed off at me in their righteous indignation, certain they are in the right, because they FEEL LIKE they are right, they BELIEVE they are right, and for them, that's the whole story. Actually proving they are right, well, they can't do that of course, but they feel no need to even try. Why bother, since they already believe they are right and that I am to be hated because I am wrong and thus evil and not to believed anyhow no matter what I say.
    It's a neat little package.

  71. This is good by .
    No Mike, This is "goodbye." When making a dramatic exit, it helps if you can spell it.

    I bet you have velcro shoes, too.

  72. This is dedicated to Mike, and all the other sad, sorry losers out there like him:

    Religion In A Box!

    Order now! Only $19.95

  73. It’s laughable that you scorn gun owners for owning guns and would promote the repeal of the second amendment a freedom that many people gave their lives to protect.
    The problem I have with people who share your ideology is this. 5,000 people under age 21 die each year from alcohol related car crashes, and, alcohol has been linked to 75,000 deaths a year. So in short the deaths associated with alcohol use far out way the deaths linked to guns in the U.S. yet we never hear a word from you people about these facts. Not a peep…. I wonder how many of you drink and drive or contribute to the use of alcohol .

  74. Okay Mike, a couple of problems there.

    If we were to consider only drunk-driving deaths where the driver was deliberately trying to injure someone, that'd lower the odds dramatically!

    Let's consider the crossover with alcohol related deaths for a moment. I'm much more likely to kill myself with my gun if I'm depressed and drunk than if I'm depressed and sober or depressed, drunk and have no gun.

    Taking a chance with booze, drinking and doing stupid things is common, that's why there are rules about drinking and driving in the first place, right, but taking chances while drunk is NOT equivalent to taking out your gun and deliberately blasting them, now is it?

    You can try to finagle the evidence using facts* with your glib rhetoric, "..the deaths associated with alcohol use far out way the deaths linked to guns in the U.S.", but we're on to your bad spelling.

    *...anything happening to anyone, caused by being drunk or caused by a drunken person is 'alcohol related', even when there is a gun involved!

    Can you not see how your 'facts' might overlap there? You know, if you were willing to be honest and that.

  75. Seems to me, to be short, is that if you can have an 'alcohol related' event and a 'gun related' event both at the same time, that just 'bare facts' are very, very misleading.

    I mean, Mike, come on, it's a fact that there was no city of Nazareth at the supposed time of Christ. There was a huge graveyard in that spot, where no self-respecting Jew would build a house. But you conflate the fact that there is a Nazareth now and the fact that Christians declare Nazareth to be the 'City of Christ' with reality!

    Same thing really, right Mike?

  76. Here's my theory of religions, politics and general peoples' dealings with people, somewhere in here.

    Imagine you're a parent, and you want the very best for your children. Of course you do, why wouldn't you? But of course you're not going to provide your child with the means to hurt themselves, you're not going to promote behaviour, like drug addiction or even partying, where it's easier for bad things to happen, bunch of drunks milling around doing gawdknows what, right?

    I mean, whoever heard of a bunch of sober people hanging out and getting in a huge fight where something happens, we don't know, but someone got hurt bad or died? I'm sure it happens, very rarely, that the cops show up at a house, no booze, no drugs and there's been a mysterious and horrible happening, with lots of potential, but somehow unaware witnesses.

    So, you're getting the drift there, mama and/or papa isn't/aren't in the business of providing their kids with the means to fuck up, generally, right?

    Now, let's say we're the child, how do we get them to cough up for stuff they don't like? Well, we semi-con them by creating an intermediary where they can think they're dealing with that, they ARE dealing with that, but that is caused by our partying or drug addiction.

    That's a bit vague, so .. (contd)

  77. So here's the specifics.

    We want to party, or do our drugs and we don't want to pay for it, the parents are certainly not going to pay for it, but we want them to, how do we make that happen?

    Easy! We spend the money that we need to live on, on partying and/or drugs which makes it all a done-deal. Mama is going to stump up for the bills which we need to live on, the electricity, the rent, food, that kind of thing, even if she wouldn't cough up for drug/party money, so we just have the party and the consequences of that are just that phone call or visit to mom where you explain the the rent or some other bill is due and you simply don't have the wherewithall!

    So, it goes, you spend say 300 bucks you can't afford on your thing, you needed that 300 bucks for bills, mama pays the bills.

    But really, what mama paid for was the thing.

    Now religion works like that too. As a pastor, I want you to give me money. You're not just going to give me money, pfft. I create a need in you, you're a sinner, you need salvation, you need me to explain how that works. Done deal. Now you're paying for my bills.

    But as a pastor, I'm not about to admit that, no. If I'm going down, if I'm going to have to make an honest living, I'm going down kicking and screaming about how my message to my flock is of so much importance to them that it's life and death for them!! It's actually my living that's at stake!

    But, just as some kids can con their parents into paying for their partying, I, a pastor, can con you into paying my way through life!

    This works for politicians too!

  78. I'm confused, is Mike arguing that there should be laws that control the manufacture, purchase and use of fire arms in the same way that we already have laws that control the manufacture, purchase and use of alcohol?

    If so, way to go Mike!

  79. When it comes to politics there's lots of room for finagelling.

    WE NEED GOVERNMENT. All of us. Without government it's the fucking Thunderdome! It's Mad Max! It's whoever has a gun, rules! This libertarian idea where, "I gots my guns, fuck you!", will never work, it's the fucking Wild West and it's the Wild West where there is no Cavalry going to show up! Think on that libertarians!

    The Wild West is a great concept, you're the owner of the Ponderosa Ranch and you and your three sons can take on the petty criminals that try to fuck with you, you're one up on them, Hah!

    That's a fucking childish dream! What happens when the dreaded communist/fascist/totalitarian army shows up with fucking tanks and tells you that, by dint of the fact that you have four Winchester repeating rifles and they have 100 tanks, you lose, now get the fuck off your 'former' ranch?

    Waiting for the Cavalry now? Oh, that would be 'GOVERNMENT', that nasty swear word you no likee!

    Now Mike, doesn't that seem reasonable, or are you under the delusion that you can just tell government to go fuck itself AND have them handy to bail you out at any moment?

    'Cos if that what you think, you are truly under a hypnotic spell, maybe you imagine that God will bail you out, much like the Russian hierarchy or the Germans under Hitler and so on and so forth?

    But that's just the start, you HAVE TO realise that libertarianism is twaddle, a con, just a game that politicians play because... once again.. there's lots of room for finagelling!

  80. LOL Ryan.. wish there was a 'like' button! LOL

  81. Now I could go on and on about how goverment is necessary and how the assholes you vote for, Mike, are the same assholes who aren't helping out the victims of Hurricane Sandy because, 'they no likee government', especially when it's convenient for them to be hating on largely Democrat districts, not so much when it's the Deep, Red(right), South.

    But you're just being an asshole libertarian there! Don't rely on government help if we don't like your politics, just, it's okay to rely on government help if I like your politics!

    Fucking assholes!

  82. It’s laughable that you scorn gun owners for owning guns and would promote the repeal of the second amendment a freedom that many people gave their lives to protect.
    Did I say that? That's what you think we want, but you'd be wrong AGAIN!! How do you keep up such a consistent record? I want sensible gun control, but hell no I don't want anyone who is sane and responsible to have to fork over their guns... maybe their ASSAULT RIFLES, but not regular guns. It's about being sensible.

    However I want to point out that I challenged Mike with a choice, whether if he had to give up all guns in order to stop all abortions, if he'd do it, and well, you can see his response... It went something like "I really hate abortions and you guys are all baby killers, but wait a minute, you didn't just say that I had to give up MY GUNS DID YOU????????????????????????????

    AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! What a sap!

  83. Incidentally, Mike returned. Now I don't mind that one little bit, really, but I just want to point out that he did say it would be a cold day in hell when he did that.

    So either Mike blatantly lied to us, or today is a cold day in hell. Guess I don't need that 'hot suit after all.... lol....

  84. So in the babies or guns thing, guns obviously win among christian gun owners. Hell, in order to keep their guns, many of them would actually shoot babies!

    Thanks for the honesty Mike.

  85. I might mention that a sane person presented with my little choice there (pun intended) would immediately prove me wrong by clearly and emphatically stating that 'of course we'd give up our guns for the lives of all those babies.'

    If they really cared about the babies, I mean.

  86. To repeat myself:

    "If they were offered a choice wherein all abortions were ended but they'd have to give up their guns, they'd keep the guns.
    Mike, if you were honest enough, you'd admit that. Guns or unborn babies? You'd pick guns in a heartbeat if that was the choice, and it wouldn't even be close, and you know it."

    He defended guns in reply.

    I love this.

  87. Mostly christian women get abortions. Even factoring in their higher numbers in the population, it's mostly christian women and not atheist women or believers in other faiths than christianity.

    So basically, what is your religion good for if it doesn't even control your own faithful? You want to make laws and punish your own daughters, you bunch of fucking fools.

    You fucking idiots are like that in general. You have a religious belief, and you want to force it down the fucking throats of nonbelievers in your religion!
    And then you wonder why it pisses us off!

    Blind hypocrites. Self-blinded, too. Happily blind. In the grip of the enormous bliss that comes with deep and true ignorance.

  88. Of course you're right Brian. The 'personhood' thing is just political bullshit, and the GOP is exactly the same, so it fits perfectly. I read a while back where a person who actually cared, let me repeat, actually cared, ended up on a bus full of 'personhood' activists and had the nerve to ask about babies' health and welfare after they were born!

    As we all can imagine, even Mike can imagine this, that person got some strange stares and some, "What do you mean, what are you, some kind of communist!??", kind of replies!

  89. Mike and them love the idea that the mother has no rights before the baby is actually a frickin' baby, 'cos that is such an 'easy button' for them.

    Fuck, even imagining how to help new mothers is beyond their ken, but her having to grow a baby human in her womb for 9 months whether she likes it or not, simply because it's automatic, barring interference from her, is the province of GOD! Much like water running downhill I suppose.

    You know, I watch Pol the incredible vet, and the amount of science he has to know to keep the local animals alive and perhaps profitable for his clients is, to say the least, staggering! Christians will, as usual, be assholes and turn tables on that and say God provides VETS, FOR FUCKS SAKES!

    So God provides science to prospective vets just as long as it suits Christians, and I suppose Satan provides science when that suits them.


  90. Let's have fun with actual facts.

    Now Mike, don't let this upset you; I realize that you have a religious objection to facts and data. Take it slow and easy, and maybe you can get through this without invoking Jesus to help you smite us.

    So here goes.

    Red-staters want less government. Blue-staters tend not to.

    Which of the two gets less ACTUAL support from the government?

    Simple question.

    I would assume that, since they hate getting government involved in their lives so very much, it would be the red states, hands down. I mean, if it were the blue states, that would prove a certain level of hypocrisy in the red ones, right?

    We all know it's the blue states that take less from the government. We pay out more than we take in from the government. You take in more than you pay back. That means that we blue-staters have to pay for your fucking stupid wrongheaded ideas in your states. We pay, so you can pretend that you're not the takers. But the facts are clear; you are indeed the takers!
    And to be honest, I don't like that one little bit. But what I especially hate is the fact that you pretend otherwise, even to yourselves!

  91. These continuous CRISES are making me not give a shit. No matter what happens, just so long as there are a bunch of twats willing to take the entire World economy down, well, they're actually willing to go there.

    Fuck's sake, what is wrong with you guys? You all imagine crying, "Well, some of us are sane!", is somehow a decent answer! All you frickin' dems ought to be out there thinning out the herd before you'all cause a catastrophe so bad that we'll all be nuking each other.

    How do the Reps. win if the World economy collapses? Once again, it just HAS TO BE that they're thinking that Jesus is going to show up and rapture them out, beam them up, or something insane like that.

  92. There are three options on the debt ceiling crisis.

    1. Obama caves, and the rep-tiles gut the social safety net, making this country into a dark and horrible place.

    2. Obama doesn't cave; the rep-tiles don't either, and we destroy the world economy, making this country a dark and horrible place.

    3. Obama uses a constitutional option, and we're more-or-less saved, at least for now.

    Now as clear as that is, why is it that I think he's not gonna do number three there?

  93. The republicans keep on setting that old Reichstag Fire over and over again; that's why you and I are sick of crises, pboy.

  94. Notice that I didn't mention option four, where the republicans cave in order to save the country.

    HAH! JUST KIDDING! There is no option four!

  95. The Reps. are all, "The USA owes 16 trillion dollars and cutting off all welfare, pensions and benefits are the only way to cure this!", but that'll tank the economy TOO!

    Who is going to buy your goods and services if, suddenly, pensioners et al have no income at all? No, you'll be facing a crisis, your business will tank, adding to the unemployed, now aka homeless, adding further to the economy tanking. There'll be no money for elected officials far less police and firemen.

    They seem to want a fast dive into a giant depression. WTF is wrong with these greedy bastards, are they that clueless? Really? Are they actually that clueless?

    The 16 trillion debt will remain and be causing interest on itself regardless of how many U.S. citizens are homeless, tanking the housing business, of course, regardless of how many people can no longer afford loans, tanking the auto industry etc. etc.

    They fricking WANT a Mad Max scenario so they can say, "See, Jesus is the WAY!", fucking morons.

  96. I think the rep-tiles see going over that cliff as a punishment to us libs. They want so very badly to give us real pain that they're willing to throw the country away for it. They're convinced they'll be okay, because hey, they have their guns and all...

    You can call them unpatriotic, you can call them traitors and treasonous, but what they really are, is just evil and insane, and in that light, you can accurately predict what they're going to do next best. We're fucked.

  97. They hate the fact that they lost the election so much, and of course they hate Obama so much, that they see this 'leverage' as the way to turn that loss into a win, I think. Put a gun to the country's head and take it hostage.

    I honestly see that as terrorism. They should be shot for it. Not exaggerating at all, either.

  98. Well, they were willing to filibuster when that was their only option, they're willing to not vote on a bill when that became their other option, and now, to top that off with a cherry, they're likely willing to fuck the entire World economy over, apparently to save the U.S. economy!

    Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face!!

  99. I'd like some news-types to ask them straight out, with none of this, "What do you think?", "That's cool, matter of opinion, I suppose.", crap, just ask them straight out, "Are you willing to tank the World economy, including your own, that what 'World economy' means, are you willing to tank everyones' economy just to save your economy?

    That doesn't make any sense at all, but that's guys you have elected to be allowed to vote on these things.

  100. You guys are so disfunctional it's like you've voted in officials with the instructions to cut off your nose to spite your face and shoot yourself in both feet, then commit hari-kari, to 'save' yourselves!

  101. These idiots are acting out their God with the entire population.

    They must punish you for your sins, you're all sinners. While they are punishing you, they see themselves as your redeemer, if only you'll accept them as your redeemer. If you don't accept them as your redeemer, they are your punisher, you know, for your sins.

    Mike is God. Mike is Jesus. When you fail to accept Mike's 'truth', and this is where it gets to be 1984 like, Big Brother like, if you fail to accept his 'truth' as 'the truth', he, Mike, must punish you, for your sins, can't you see? He didn't 'want' to ruin the country, your country, his country, he wanted you to stop sinning, and it's only because you did not choose to be a true Christian, which, in this case, is believing exactly as Mike does, believing in Mike's God, believing that Mike is God, it's only because of this that the World must be destroyed, don't you see?

    As it is written, 'Would you rather live as a monster or die as a good man?'

    Here's the thing. They will survive the economic crash to come, and they will believe that Jesus has come to reign on this World. They ARE Jesus, you see. Do you see? Each one of them is, in his own mind, Jesus. Each woman they know, is Mary.

    When they say Jesus manifests himself in them, these fucking insane bastards actually think they ARE Jesus manifesting Himself in them.

    It's the only way that what they do, what they say, makes any kind of sense. Who else really knows every jot and tittle of the LAW? These was/is only one, that 'one' is Jesus, who is Mike, who is small b brian, who is Dinesh, and so on and so forth.

  102. It is against the law for people to use drugs such as cocaine , marijuana , meth and so on as well as laws for people who are under age and those who drive and use alcohol . But do any of these laws keep drugs and alcohol out of the hands of the few who do not obey the law of the land? NO, It don’t … and stricter gun laws will not keep guns out of the hands of people who care not for law or what is right and wrong.
    It’s like you people can’t see the writing on the wall, try taking off the blinders or the rose colored atheist liberal glasses you view the world thru.

  103. OhMyGod... Did Mike just come back and re-emphasize that he's more concerned with the guns than the unborn children again?

    What a sick fuck.

  104. Mike, don't worry, I wouldn't take your gun away even if I were absolutely certain that you would soon kill yourself with it.

    See how much I care?

  105. rose colored atheist liberal glasses you view the world thru.
    Wonder why ours are the 'rose-colored' (i.e.:optimistic) glasses? Shouldn't the christians be the optimists?

    Guess Mike's are shit colored glasses. Maybe that's why he can't spell, heck, he can't even see the page through the smeared feces.

    Why is it, I honestly wonder, that I have rose-colored glasses meaning that I see the world all nicey-nice (I guess) and he what exactly? He sees the world as the pile of shit that he and the others like him make of it?

    Here's the truth about that: Liberal means 'forward-thinking' and we liberals welcome change when it is good change, whereas conservatives are FUCKING LITTLE COWARDS that FEAR EVERYTHING and always want the world to stay just the same, all the time. Which is like trying to get iron not to rust by merely insisting on it emphatically and stomping your foot.

    Change is life, my little fuckhead. Grow up someday before you die. Try it on for size. Adulthood, I mean.

  106. You wanna know what seeing the world through rose-colored glasses is really like?

    Looking at the world around us which does not give any evidence whatsoever for the existence of a god, and insisting that you see such evidence everywhere.

  107. A gun is the weapon of the coward.

    Remote control death, just press the button. No blood on your clothes. Doesn't matter how brave and strong the other guy is because you are cheating. It's the preferred weapon of small-penised cowardly men around the world.

  108. I would guess that the correlation between guns and penises goes something like this:

    Derringer/.22cal = 5 inches

    .38 special = 4 inches

    .45 or 9mm = 3 inches

    Assault weapon = 1 inch pudlet

  109. Subtract another inch for the large pickup with the gun rack

  110. Multiple assault weapons and survival shelter with canned goods and so forth = a pussy with a somewhat large clit

  111. It must be difficult to have a very small penis. I can almost see how the anger at your tiny 'lot' in life might cause you to go batshit crazy and want a big phallic weapon that spews hot lead at people's faces.... Poor sad gun rights advocates.

    I hear Wayne LaPierre fucks bugs.

  112. Now knowing all this, it becomes apparent why so many christians need guns.

    The religion produces cowards on purpose, so they don't ever have the balls to QUESTION THEIR FAITH. And as noted, cowards need guns. Small-penised cowards need bigger ones.

  113. It must be disheartening to load a round of ammo into a clip, and realize that the bullet is longer than your dick.

    I feel for you, Mike. I truly do. But not with my hands, as you probably wish.

  114. Oops, I made a homoerotic comment to Mike.

    Mike, you should see this as an opportunity to resist the temptation to fuck me. Resist it! Don't give in! God loves the men that resist their gayness a lot more than the ones that are straight and aren't tempted by men in the first place, you know.

  115. Some Christians are the sad, repressed homosexuals who have decided that it is better to be boldly, aggressively Christian, hiding behind bullying ideology such as ProLife, anti-gay, anti-secularism and so on, but I'm sure that there are Christians who see that bullying ideology as a good thing simply because they are bullies anyways.

    I tried to watch the Senate Minority Leader McConnell(I always get mixed up with that name) on Meet the Press, but it's sickening to watch his smarmy face explaining that he is willing to push that Debt Ceiling thing unless Obama suddenly pushes a Republican Agenda! This in the name of 'showing leadership'.

    But a school bully will justify his actions by telling his victims it's for their own good, why they should be out there grabbing other kid's lunch money and generally terrorizing the population, and he's really just showing them how to do it, right?

    Obama has demonstrated that he is willing to be bullied, so they'll fucking bully him. Doesn't Obama understand Bullying 101, blame the pigeon.

    When you're bullying someone, you're controlling them, and it's not hypocritical for the bully to get caught in a gay situation, it's not hypocritical for the bully to bully his girlfriend to get an abortion, it's not hypocritical for the bully to do anything at all, just because he ignores his own bullying tools, wtf, he's not the target of the bullying.

    Mike is simply a cripple-headed bully, who can see the sweet, sweet effect of trying to take peoples' pensions, for example. Now he wouldn't think twice of applying for a pension himself, and it wouldn't be hypocritical, because his so-called religious/political 'position' is having the desired effect.

    You see how fast Mike jumped at the chance to call us ALL baby-killers when Harry told us about his girlfriend's abortion? But there was only one actual 'criminal'(in Mike's mind), the girlfriend.

    There are no girls on here bragging that they've had abortions, no. Just a bunch of guys 'not condemning it'. We're all guilty of not being Mike, not condemning what Mike condemns.

    Now why would Mike rant that we're baby killers, since it was only Harry's girlfriend, who, we hear, got an abortion, according to Harry!?

    Well, Mike is bullying us. Christ, it doesn't matter to Mike if he's bullied 1000 women into aborting their fetuses, no. Mike gloated to himself over the fact that he can accuse us of being baby killers, HAH!

    Right Mike? That's right, isn't it? What are the odds of Mike coming back with a comment that he was out of place accusing everyone here of being baby killers simply for not condemning Harry's girlfriend?

    If Mike deigns to reply at all, he's just going to say something that he's hoping will hurt our feelings, 'cos, it's plain as day, he's just a cripple-headed bully.

  116. The ironic thing is, we as a country should probably have a real conversation about abortions. They need to be minimized. However Mike's side isn't REASONABLE and they demand nothing less than a total and complete 'win' on the issue, banning all abortions, even in the cases where the very life of the mother is at stake, plus they demonstrate a MONSTROUS level of hypocrisy in all they say and do as relates to the 'already-born.' They are not 'pro-life' at all; they are pro-death in every possible way, pro-war, pro-gun, pro-death-penalty and so on, except in this one area where they pretend to compassion but in reality merely use the issue as a club to bash us with more then they are concerned with the actual unborn lives involved. In short, we need to have the conversation, but not with irrational nutbags that aren't in it to have it, but only to use it against us.

  117. I mean, my wife is a social worker and she's seen women that have abortion after abortion, pretty much using the procedure as their method of birth control. This should stop. I'd be willing to talk about it. But not with religious zealots that hate me.

  118. Where do you draw the line Brian? Mike and them have drawn the line at, 'If it helps us politically, we're in, if it doesn't but it pisses a lot of people off, we're in.'

    It's just a bullying tactic with them. " not 'pro-life' at all; they are pro-death in every possible way, pro-war, pro-gun, pro-death-penalty and so on, except in this one area where they pretend to compassion".. that is, just a bullying tactic.

    Bullies are so-called pro-life, bullies are pro-death, pro-war, pro-gun and pro-death-penalty, bullies will insist that morality is on their side and will hijack religion, politics, good-will, anything to get the knife in and twist it.

  119. So it would seem. In finding christianity the bullies have found not a path to goodness but an excuse for their badness, justification for their bullying, the best excuse there ever was, that God approves of it and them. By finding a way to pretend they are good they avoid all guilt, all consequences.
    Hitler did the same thing.

    Truly evil people always truly believe that they are good. Christianity is a pre-fab excuse method for it all. It was designed to hide the greed and evil of a corrupt roman emperor; that is what it does best, cloak evil in the robes of sanctity. Hide evil behind the facade of goodness. Which to me, it the very worst form of evil, because the gullible cannot see it for what it is; they believe it at face-value and can't dare to even question it, because that is prohibited.

  120. Well, if you think about it, it's what Mike says. God is the arbiter of what is good and what is evil, that's why he can flood the World out if he feels like it, and shit like that.

    But the Godly feel that they represent his Goodness on Earth, and, well, obviously, they get to decide themselves what is God's Goodness and what's not!

    And that is a recipe for madness. "Of course you heathens don't this this complete assholiness is 'good', that's because it's Godly Good, and you're heathens, so you wouldn't understand! We work in mysterious ways, don't you know."

    These mental midgets would have tiny nations battling it out, Bible style, over who is the fucking HOLIEST! Who cares if blood is running in the streets, they're doing Godly GOOD!

  121. .45 or 9mm = 3 inches

    It's anecdotal, but no.

  122. Once again Ian you are wrong…
    Christians do not feel as if they represent His goodness. They feel forgiven.
    What most Christians try to do is share with others the teachings of Gods word.
    The atheist are the ones who vehemently scream the God who is spoken of in the Bible is not good but evil. You and Brian have proclaimed it from your roof tops or in this case your key boards numerous times .And it’s as you say heathens can’t discern between what the God of the old and new testament perceives is good or evil. Hey look at what you write for example, over and over again your version of good is completely opposite of what is written in the Bible concerning homosexuality, abortions and well what ever.

    One of the most obvious problems you have is you feel as if you are a mental Giant more capable of understanding then others. This is bullshit of course, everyone knows your liberal positions will be the death of a great nation…. I mean lets take Obama for example he has spent and wasted more money then all of his predecessors, and his foolishness will be the ruination and collapse of the economy. Yet you sound bites try to shift the blame to the repubs. We can’t help but laugh at you fools for your stupidity.

  123. One problem with that, Mike. When you feel forgiven, you no longer feel guilty of the things that YOU ARE ACTUALLY GUILTY OF.

    It's a 'get out of guilt free' card.

    Then you sin all over again, and get forgiven again, and so on.

    Ahh whatever, it's like talking to a kid.

  124. We can’t help but laugh at you fools for your stupidity.
    The brainless always believe they're smart. They believe it, so they don't actually have to do the work of *being* it.

  125. The atheist are the ones who vehemently scream the God who is spoken of in the Bible is not good but evil.
    No, the atheists are the ones that say he doesn't exist, and the fact that people believe that he does and that he can do bad things but they're good magically just because he's god, is evil. And a lot of other things about the religion is evil. That's because it is INDEED a human-created organization, and one of the few that pretends to FLAWLESSNESS and pretends to GRACE and pretends to GODLINESS. When people come to believe that you're all of those things, hell, you can get away with murder. Hell, you can get a believer to do it for you!

  126. God cannot forgive you, for hurting me. Or for hurting anybody. The only person that can, is the one that you've hurt. And you also have to make amends.

    That's how it's done by SANE PEOPLE. You guys skip all that and just pray it away, and so you keep doing the behavior. You skip the guilt and the apologizing and the making it right.

    Bunch of self-important assholes, that's what you are.

  127. Hey look at what you write for example, over and over again your version of good is completely opposite of what is written in the Bible concerning homosexuality, abortions and well what ever.
    Of course it is, because those things in the bible are the complete opposite of good!

    The fact that it fooled you, is none of my concern. You can't educate every idiot on the planet. Some of you are smart enough to realize it, like Oneblood who became Harry C. Pharisee. That was his 'born again' moment. And he's been getting smarter ever since, as far as I can tell. Others, like you, are too happy feeling superior and being in the God Club to ever 'wake the fuck up,' as Samuel Jackson says.

  128. .45 or 9mm = 3 inches

    It's anecdotal, but no.
    HAH! You packin' heat, Ryan?

    Well, no matter, there are always exceptions to the rule... but just think, if only you'd never bought a gun, how much larger your dick would have been.... just think..... think...

  129. "It is against the law for people to use drugs such as cocaine , marijuana , meth and so on as well as laws for people who are under age and those who drive and use alcohol . But do any of these laws keep drugs and alcohol out of the hands of the few who do not obey the law of the land? NO, It don’t …"

    But the more available coke and pot and meth and so on is, the more likely people are going to use them, this is the logic you and the rest of your feeble-minded ilk would use, themselves, is it not?

    How does this not translate to the availability of guns, of oversize magazines, of assault weapons? Well, it seems it would if that's the side of the 'controversy' you happen to like, right?

    Now all we're asking you to do is what you absolutely will not do, just, consider this. Consider that you can take one 'side' of an argument with the guns, and to make the point, the same side of the argument with the drugs. But when you look at the drugs alone, you can see the other side, the restriction side, as valid.

    So, you're basically saying that you argue that restriction doesn't work for drugs, so what's the point with guns. But if you look at drugs alone, you're all for restriction.

    Can you not see how that doesn't make sense? I think that you just don't want to see how it doesn't make sense, that you just refuse to see how it doesn't make sense.

    It's the same thing with a fertile egg being a kind of ward of the State with personhood rights on the one hand, but as soon as they're born, it's not the States' business to ensure that child's welfare.

  130. " I mean lets take Obama for example he has spent and wasted more money then all of his predecessors, and his foolishness will be the ruination and collapse of the economy. Yet you sound bites try to shift the blame to the repubs. We can’t help but laugh at you fools for your stupidity."

    Yea, yea, Obama spent this and Obama spent that, but it is Congress who have to pass each and every spending bill before it can be presented to the POTUS. I'm sorry Mike, but I know more about your government than you do.

    Of course you laugh when we complain that you're just a bunch of ignorant, yokel bullies. That's what bullies do.

    I'm pretty sure there are some Creationists laughing, somewhere, right now, because they can see how a banana fits in your hand so perfectly, and, you know, sane people, adult people think they are batshit.

    Who knows what silliness you might actually believe and be laughing away at anyone who knows it's ridiculous. For example, you might imagine that a raped woman has some kind of natural mechanism that shuts down the reproductive system in just such an emergency!

    You might imagine that, just because Congress MUST pass ALL spending bills that it's not their fault how much money is being spent.

    That's like if you, as the head of your household, personally okayed each and every purchase made by everyone, then at the end of the month, decided that too much money was spent, so, fuckit, you're not going to pay!

    You can see how fucked up that is, right?

    I'm sorry, not you, you are too busy laughing at us.

  131. Government spending is 100% Congress's business. Sure someone, it has to be frickin' someone, who presents a bill to Congress which is gong to cost Government money.

    Barack Obama may well have drafted a bill and presented it to Congress, but they come to some kind of deal, and they, Congress, sign the fucking thing.

    Do you get that? If Congress will NOT pass a bill, then Government cannot spend the money. So, who's fault is it that your Government has a huge deficit?

    There are 435 members of the House of Representatives(Congress)and which spending bills get passed are 100% dependent on what they vote for! What they sign off on. Each members' signature might as well be on the bottom of every bill that reaches the Senate or the POTUS.

    So who is looking around pointing fingers at Obama and blaming him personally for all the numbers they no likee, well, they're pointing the finger the wrong way!

    Fuck, Mike'll NEVER get it, never. I'm wasting my fucking time trying to get through to laughing boy and his stupid, laughing buddies.

  132. One problem with that, Mike. When you feel forgiven, you no longer feel guilty of the things that YOU ARE ACTUALLY GUILTY OF

    That’s what forgiveness is Brian, even though one was guilty of something the person or persons offended showed mercy in forgiving the guilty so they can have a release of the guilt.

  133. "..even though one was guilty of something the person or persons offended showed mercy in forgiving the guilty so they can have a release of the guilt."

    Mike, is one guilty of a crime if one stones their unruly chidren to death?

    Now I don't what us all mixed up about common law and God's LAW here, you're a BIBLE BELIEVER and GOD COMMANDS that one must stone disobedient children. The laws of the U.S.A. cannot supercede the LAW of GOD, not in your eyes, surely?

    Unless you're guilty of dancing around, of mixing and matching what you think with how things are, to suit yourself, there's only one answer for you. That answer is, "According to God's LAW, the person who stones their unruly kids to death, is righteous and God fearing, and innocent of any Godly crime!"

    I'm thinking that here's yet another example of how we should be quiet about such barbaric 'law', since we don't live in those silly old times where one could get away with that barbarity, for you, right?

    But you advocate bringing such rubbish back into the popular worldview, don't you?

  134. The point of the last few comments seems to be that there are differing perspectives for any topic.

    You can throw up your hands in despair because the drug laws don't prevent evil-doers from doing their thing, use that as an example of why more gun laws won't help, or, you can push the idea that we can't have everyone doing drugs, so we should have laws to keep the lid on it, and this is why we should have laws against assault-type weapons, super-sized magazines, arsenals and so forth.

    When we talk about banning assault type weapons etc. this is not a bad thing for 'law-abiding citizens' at all. Unless of course you feel that it's fine to have an arsenal of assault type weapons etc. handy to repel some kind of invasion?

    But if you encourage your government to be a police state, by arming teachers and so on, on the one hand, and you're crying that the country is becoming a police state, since the damned teachers are armed, on the other hand, it's you guys who are the laughable fools, can't you see that?

    I mean come on, you'd have a fucking police state to protect you from every possible circumstance, and demand the right to have a battle ready arsenal if this police state, which you'all created, isn't what you expected, right?

    There's nothing good, or even Godly, can come of this, nothing.

  135. One problem with that, Mike. When you feel forgiven, you no longer feel guilty of the things that YOU ARE ACTUALLY GUILTY OF

    That’s what forgiveness is Brian, even though one was guilty of something the person or persons offended showed mercy in forgiving the guilty so they can have a release of the guilt

    Mike, are really this dense?

    Read it again, the original paragraph, if that doesn't strain you too much, and you'll see that what I was saying is that when GOD grants you magic forgiveness at NO COST TO YOU other than MAYBE a few prayers, you haven't ATONED for the 'sin' that you did, and you're not asking the PERSON OR PEOPLE that you HURT for that forgiveness; instead you are asking a being that may or may not even exist, and this makes you feel forgiven!


  136. Now you can say that it's real because you FEEL FORGIVEN, but I could do the same thing, hurt you, say steal from you, and then ask my forgiveness for that from a passing squirrel in my yard, and look, his whiskers twitched so that squirrel FORGAVE ME MY SINS, and now I feel fine... but you're still out your blow-up doll that I stole from you and so you haven't forgiven me at all, have you?

    Stop being DENSE AS CONCRETE.

  137. This 'forgiveness at no cost' thing is why christianity is so very popular IN JAIL.

  138. even though one was guilty of something the person or persons offended showed mercy in forgiving the guilty...
    Nice red herring there. We're talking about god forgiving you, and you switched god to 'the person or person's offended' which, unless I'm very much mistaken, is not god. If you feel that you offended ONLY god, then apologize to him if that makes you feel better, but as for hurting or offending anybody real, asking god to forgive that is identical to me asking that squirrel. It does nothing to absolve the sin. It is not forgiveness.

  139. Mike laughs at us for noticing how dense he is. If you want to wipe the smug indifference Mike wears, off his smug mug, you pretty much have to threaten to kill his grandchildren.

    Anything else is, "I can be a dick, I love it when they call me a dick, they can't touch me!"

    But if some people are giant dicks for long enough, it's like when the wife gets to the point where she has only one option, she can choose to dispose of the problem, or, well, there was only one option really, right?

    Thing is that insane fucks like Mike take that to mean, "I have taught you well padiwan!", being an a-hole for so frickin' long that the only decent response is being a total a-hole, they get to say, "See, I TOLD YOU that you're either with us or against us, if you thought you weren't, wrong, 'cos we are willing to make that SO."

  140. Also, your religion gives no real standard for asking god for forgiveness.

    Christian A asks god for forgiveness tearfully and sincerely, vowing to never do the sin again, and is utterly sincere about that, and is in PAIN because they know they've sinned.

    Christian B asks god for forgiveness, feels better instantly, and moves on without any real sincere regret, because hey, they knew when they did the sin that forgiveness for it is as easy as mouthing the words.

    Which one are you?

    Of course, both christians have only asked god, so the people they sinned against have not forgiven them, and both christians never even asked them to, much less attempted to atone for it to them. But the first one, christian A, is at least hurt by his or her own sin a little bit and might not do it again; not so with christian B.
    Most christians out there that I see, are like christian B.

  141. The littlest hobo: act 1 scene 1

    Paw is sitting on the porch whittling and the dog comes up the dirt road and ...

    dog: Bark!
    Paw: What?
    dog: Bark! Bark! Bark!
    Paw: Jimmy fell down the well?
    dog: Bark!
    Paw: Which well, that one to the East?
    dog: Bark! Bark!
    Paw: That one to the West?
    dog: Bark!
    Paw: hmmm.. well, Jimmy is a Democrat anyway!
    dog: ... ... Bark???

  142. "Dear LOrd, forgive me for getting drunk and stupid and please take this giant hangover away! I swear that I will never drink again! Also God, please forgive me in advance for lying about the quitting drinking thing!"

  143. Rep. Sen.:- Ima give you 20 reasons why I fucking hate the idea of Chuck Hegel becoming Secretary of State.

    What's her name:- Does that mean you're going to filibuster?

    Rep. Sen.:- I think it's premature to state that.


  144. Hah!

    You see what I mean here then, right? I tell Mike that asking forgiveness from god is not really being forgiven because you haven't asked the person or persons that you've 'sinned' against for it nor have you attempted to make amends, and he responds with MY definition of forgiveness instead of his original one, telling me 'that's what forgiveness is' as if I was the one that was not clear on it. He responded with a straw man argument. I say 'asking god for your forgiveness is not being forgiven, that only by asking the people you've hurt for it is,' and he tells me that asking the people that you've hurt for forgiveness and then feeling better about it is the definition of forgiveness, as if that wasn't what I'd just said.

    How do people ever get this dense and not get routinely arrested for public drooling?

  145. Mike sees all this as us being proud about how very smart we are. We call him dense and stupid out of our pride in our intellects, which is of course misplaced because we're 'not that smart' and so forth.

    How do I tell him that I don't feel so smart, I feel kinda dumb an awful lot, and still his level that he operates at is, to me, not that far above my dog, who is kinda bright for a dog? How do I tell him that he's not acting a little dumb, he's acting like a clueless child that never went outside his own house in his life? That he's acting phenomenally stupid but he believes he's actually the smart one? Being a believer, he just believes what he wants to and never listens anyway... I'm not being proud that I'm so much smarter. That's not it at all. I'm being appalled that he's so impossibly dense and can't think critically in any way at all. When a normal person meets a person with Down's syndrome, and that normal person is not an asshole, they don't think 'what a stupid person, I am far smarter than them!' No, they feel pity for the person with Downs, and say 'what a shame.' That's where I am with him, and since he doesn't have Down's, I try to reason him out of it. That's where his anger begins, of course, because he likes to be as dumb as a kid with Downs... it's blissful, I guess. His god apparently approves. Apparently, god likes them dumb.

  146. Hell, when I talk to Pliny in depth about anything, I feel pretty stupid most of the time. So where's my pride there? He's just smarter than me in most areas, and I know it. I'm not about to tell him 'you think you're so smart, but it's all just your pride talking...' Hell no, he's fucking smart!
    Mike, it's really, actually you that is the problem. You've managed to neuter your own intellect, and ever since I've met you I've been trying to get you to see that in one way or another. But of course, you will always just believe what you wish to, what makes you feel better, what makes you FEEL smarter than us, what makes you happy, which is of course nothing less than you being right all the time and us being wrong all the time. It may make you feel better, but that's as hollow as asking that squirrel for forgiveness. Or asking god.

  147. Wasting time and effort and thinking power guys!

    Mike believes in a bunch of truisms like debt is bad, therefore Democrats must be to blame!

    Bunch of peaceniks can't possibly bring peace, only firm totalitarianism brings peace!

    That kind of total bullshit. Y'see?

  148. A few answers back, Mike said to us " Hey look at what you write for example, over and over again your version of good is completely opposite of what is written in the Bible concerning homosexuality, abortions and well what ever."

    How do you reason with a man that truly believes that the very definition of 'good' is what the bible says it is, and nothing more than that? There's nowhere to even start. We cannot even have the discussion. He will not listen. He believes that he is infallible as long as he listens to his supposedly infallible book, never letting the thought that the book itself might not be right in some areas even cross his mind. He would surely say that 'any man or woman can be wrong about anything' but in reality he doesn't believe that HE can be WRONG about THIS, and that's pure pride, the kind that blinds people to themselves.

  149. Christians see peace as an unattainable ideal, and as long as they think it's unattainable, why bother?

    The religion needs enemies. It's designed to be all about 'us versus them.' It's a wartime religion, and so if there's no wars happening at the moment, better start one, since the second coming needs a world war in order to begin...

    That bumper-sticker that says 'visualize world peace' means nothing to them at all. In fact, they see it as some hippy slogan that is just a stupid thing to even think about. They can't visualize world peace, since it's against their religion. What they do not see is the stark fact that it is because of people not believing in the possibility of world peace, that prevents it from ever beginning to happen.

  150. Mike, are really this dense?

    Read it again, the original paragraph, if that doesn't strain you too much, and you'll see that what I was saying is that when GOD grants you magic forgiveness at NO COST TO YOU other than MAYBE a few prayers, you haven't ATONED for the 'sin' that you did, and you're not asking the PERSON OR PEOPLE that you HURT for that forgiveness; instead you are asking a being that may or may not even exist, and this makes you feel forgiven!
    I’d talk about somebody being dense if I were you!

    If I offend or hurt someone I have to make it right “apologize unto the person I hurt first “ before I can get forgiveness from God. The two go hand in hand.
    Is this to hard for you to grasp hold of ?

  151. You didn't say that. Maybe talking is a good way to communicate?

  152. So when are you gonna apologize to us for saying that atheists hate something they do not believe exists?

    Never, that's when.

  153. Mike, I'm going to tell you something, and it's absolutely true.

    You do not know the difference between good and bad.

    You just don't.

    It's because you can't think for yourself; you just believe what people handed you.

    Some of the bible, is not good. You will continue to falsely believe that it is good for the rest of your life, hurting others with no awareness of it, and therefore NO REGRET.

    In your pride, you have decided that you're just right, with no reason or logic telling you that you are. You just believe it.

    You cannot empathize with others not like you. You just can't. And since you can't, you can never see life from any angle other than from your own, and so you can never learn if you're right or not, because you do not care to and can't see the need to.

    This makes me sad, but I've tried everything, and you won't ever change. And that means that most of you christians who are really false christian pharisees, will always in their pride believe they are the righteous ones when they are not, and never, ever awaken to the fact that they are not so different from other people, that we are all imperfect, that we are all brothers.

    It shows in your desire to punish people for sins. You judge, no matter that the bible tells you not to; you condemn 'sinners' instead of loving them as Jesus did. You believe it is your right to punish them, as if all sins are not equal. Your own book says all sins are equal, and all men are sinners, and STILL you will condemn the sins of others and even seek legal punishment for them, never giving a single thought to all your own sins that you surely commit, as surely as the sun comes up.
    Damn others, and you damn yourself. So have fun with that!

  154. You can throw up your hands in despair because the drug laws don't prevent evil-doers from doing their thing, use that as an example of why more gun laws won't help, or, you can push the idea that we can't have everyone doing drugs, so we should have laws to keep the lid on it, and this is why we should have laws against assault-type weapons, super-sized magazines, arsenals and so forth.

    When we talk about banning assault type weapons etc. this is not a bad thing for 'law-abiding citizens' at all. Unless of course you feel that it's fine to have an arsenal of assault type weapons etc. handy to repel some kind of invasion?

    But if you encourage your government to be a police state, by arming teachers and so on, on the one hand, and you're crying that the country is becoming a police state, since the damned teachers are armed, on the other hand, it's you guys who are the laughable fools, can't you see that?

    I mean come on, you'd have a fucking police state to protect you from every possible circumstance, and demand the right to have a battle ready arsenal if this police state, which you'all created, isn't what you expected, right?

    Hey meatball you are still missing the point. The point is when they create new laws to control semi automatics weapons the only ones who will have them are the lawbreakers. What good have the laws against illegal drugs done? None. you can still buy drugs anywhere you look. And it will be the same for semi automatic weapons. The only difference the law abiding citizens wont have them.

    What’s laughable is you think new laws will correct the problem.
    Do you even understand what a police state is? Wow too funny… We have armed guards in banks to protect the currency WITH NO PROBLEM OF POLICEING. Don’t you think the children are worth more then all the banks together? Who said anything about arming teachers? The NRA suggested security guards which is a good ideal . This is the way it is with you intellectual jerks….. You have absolutely no common sense. Even when you comment on a subject you blow all out of context and add shit as you hammer away on your keyboard.

    I’m done playing now.

  155. Here's a nice little bit of christian sophistry. A lie they tell themselves.

    "Love the sinner but hate the sin!"

    So then, making gay marriage illegal is loving the sinners HOW EXACTLY?

    You're not hurting the sin, you're hurting the sinner. (Since you believe it to be a sin; I certainly don't, but it's an example...)

    Putting an abortion doctor, or a mother that has an abortion, in jail, is loving the sinner HOW AGAIN?

    If you hate the sin, you work to lessen it, to educate people about it, and that's fine, even if you're wrong you're not hurting others. For instance, get on board with BIRTH CONTROL and you lessen abortions one hell of a lot!

    Of course, you dolts can't see that the lesser 'sin' is still preferable, right? So you're just against that little cure, because you actually believe that it's as bad to not let an embryo implant in the first place as it is sticking a needle into a four-month-old fetus' brain!

    You guys really and truly suck, ya know that? Being oblivious to how much you suck, is why you suck so much.

  156. We have armed guards in banks to protect the currency WITH NO PROBLEM OF POLICEING.
    We stopped that decades ago, Mike. They're not in the banks anymore, not in any of them. They found out that cameras were more effective and you lost less lives that way. Look it up, and not from some right-wingnut site.

    Grow up, willya?

  157. I’m done playing now.
    Of course you are. You always quit and take your ball home when others are better players than you are.

    We're right, and you know it. Your arguments are barely even arguments. You have no leg to stand on at all. You just can't admit it to yourself, because you're chickenshit to think for yourself.

  158. I mean, you morons are even against CONDOMS!

    I bet you all spill your sperm on the ground like everyone else does, too. Then you pretend that you don't and come out against condoms, as if cumming in a rubber sheath is just as bad as a third trimester abortion!

    What a bunch of utter hypocrites.

  159. The gun industry and the NRA have a great marketing strategy - sell greater firepower to disturbed individuals and angry paranoid losers then convince people that they need the same capability to be safe. Up the ante every time a tragedy takes place and convince them they need even more firepower. Plus convince them that their paranoia about the government (which ironically is so 'abusive' that it lets them run around with infantry weapons in the first place) is true so that they run out and buy five assault rifles. Then tell them that their neighbor has five, so now they need 7, and so on. It's a great scam.

    If so many people are so concerned about preserving freedom why is enlistment at such a low level? You want to be Rambo, then join the actual militia.

    It's like how the military builds a new weapon, sells it to potential enemies, then whines about needing a new weapon to redress the new imbalance. Here's a tip - don't sell it to them in the first place.

    Lastly, I'm not interested in having a bunch of idiots with guns in schools who imagine themselves to be Wyatt Earp. Like the guy in Oregon who took his handgun to the movie theater fearing an attack, lost it, only to be found by two kids under the seat. Another example of responsible gun ownership, no doubt. Now he wants his gun back.

    As a trauma surgeon for 25 years I've seen the impact of poor decision-making by my fellow Americans. Add some beer and it quadruples. It's to our mutual benefit that the average poor decision-maker's reach isn't 2 miles.

  160. The right's support for banning abortion while simultaneously de-funding social support for single mothers and actual children, might seem at odds. At least until you see it as a strategy to dis-empower women. They can't decide on their own bodies and can't get help to dig out of poverty or dependence. That'll make'em more compliant with scripture.

  161. " The point is when they create new laws to control semi automatics weapons the only ones who will have them are the lawbreakers."

    Not true, law enforcement can always have them, no-one is suggesting that the police ought to be handicapped by a lack of fire-power. The average criminal is out to benefit themselves, not to take out as many people as possible.

    Look Mike, the system works if you let it. How many times do you read in the news about people who have been killed by Thompson sub-machine guns? I'm guessing not many, 'cos there's hardly any around, get it?

    If the U.S. makes it illegal to sell, say, Thompson sub-machine guns, there won't be any around. It's not as if manufacturers are allowed to make just anything but the public aren't allowed to buy anything, can you see that???

    No, you likely cannot.

  162. For home defense, there's no reason I shouldn't have a semi-automatic pistol, but I don't need one that will shoot 90 bullets per minute. I don't just have a right to defend my family, but an obligation.

    With that said, the knee jerk reaction by the right to prevent ANY regulation is disgusting. The NRA sued doctors in Florida for speaking to their patients about guns in their homes. I guess the second amendment is more important than the first to these clowns.

    I think one sensible thing that could be done (beside focusing on rate of fire (as opposed to the increasingly fuzzy distinction between semi-auto and automatic) and magazine capacity) would be to lift protections for gun manufacturers from civil suits. You can already sue up and down the supply chain in most industries, why not this one?

    Like the guy in Oregon who took his handgun to the movie theater fearing an attack, lost it, only to be found by two kids under the seat. Another example of responsible gun ownership, no doubt.

    There was another idiot in a theater who dropped his gun and shot himself in the ass. I have to wonder if the causulty rate would have been higher in the dark smokey movie theater in CO if there had been some wanna be Wyatt Earps with concealed carries in there. There are countless examples of by-standards getting killed or wounded by people defending themselves with guns.

    And personally, I've seen guys who were "packing" (legally) mouth off and get into bad situations in a way I'm fairly positive they wouldn't have had they not been packing.

    It's a very complex problem, but just saying MY COLD DEAD HAND!!!!!! over and over like an idiot isn't going to help solve it.

  163. Sam Harris on gun control. I think he's got a sensible take on it.

  164. "You can throw up your hands in despair.. " Me quoting me.

    "The only difference the law abiding citizens wont have them." - Mike.

    There you have it, Mike throwing his hands up in despair, because law abiding citizens wouldn't have assault-type weapons and/or oversize magazines laying around available for some heretofor law-abiding, but mentally ill son, say, to go on a shooting spree.

    If the mother hadn't been killed, it'd only be a wonder if she wasn't suing the government for NOT making a law not allowing her to have such weapons and have them not locked up.

  165. Gun nuts often have kids, and having gun nuts for parents is a good intro into obsessive insanity and egomaniacal behavior. More and more kids nowadays (me sounding really old) seem to have a certain detachment with society. I have an adopted son, 22 years old, and he doesn't leave his computer screen except for meals and bathroom breaks, basically, and practically has a total meltdown if we have a power failure, and frankly if we as parents had guns lying around and made them always sound cool to him and taught him how to shoot, considering the fact that he's on antianxiety meds already, we'd be doing him a dis-service at the minimum, and possibly giving him ideas for the next time he melts down. Would we see his problems in the same light if to us, guns were innocuous tools that every 'real man' should possess? Doubtful... more likely we'd encourage him to become the best killer he can be on the shooting range, and then if he ever really had a breakdown, well, he'd not only know how to use a real gun but he'd also know where to find one... Not good

  166. I don't think video games contribute to the number of kids out there that go nuts and pick up a gun, but I do think they're out there and available once that kid is on that path, as TRAINING TOOLS. So there's that, too. And really, all of our lovely society seems to worship the concept of the vigilante, the lone killer out for revenge, so that's more likely the real, bigger problem, and one that is least likely to change anytime soon.

  167. Human society is used to worshiping mythical beings that have immense power to slay if they so choose. The invention of the gun has made it possible for a mere human in the real world to possess such a power. So we have, some of us, transferred our innate worship of a powerful deity onto the real-world equivalent, the lone vigilante that is out to settle a score and has the power to kill at a distance, to 'strike one dead,' as it were.

  168. I wonder if the Newtown shooter's mother was one of those people that used the phrase 'MY COLD DEAD HAND!!!' in reference to her guns.

    Pretty funny in a dark way, if so.

  169. It occurs to me that there is an inherent conundrum in the idea of keeping guns locked up in the home. Sure, they're safer from the kids or the wife if you're worried about her, lol, but they're fucking locked up, aren't they? If they're locked up, it takes time to get to them, and in a home invasion time is the one thing you usually do not have much of. More's the worse if the gun cabinet is not in the bedroom or wherever you are when you hear that front door crashing in or whatever. So for the guns to be really effective in repelling a random home attack, they need to be unlocked and where you sleep or where you are, and then they're available to all that know about them in the family or even the family's friends and their acquaintances. Hell, a friend of a friend of your kid might be the one that decides to steal them, and maybe kill you all in the process.

  170. I used to like that movie 'Silence Of The Lambs.' The scenes where Agent Sparrow visits Lechter in jail and learns about the mind of a depraved killer kind-of remind me of when Mike visits here. I get to actually learn the mind of a depraved christian who substitutes blind beliefs for guiding principles determined over a life of learning and self-exploration. It's almost as scary, and even more scary when you factor in the sheer number of these poor demented sots and the fact that society doesn't seek to treat them or imprison them for their folly but instead seems to encourage them in their fantasy world.

  171. We're so concerned nowadays after Newtown with the idea of mental illness being the real culprit, and I suppose such is the case, but really if you take a really sensitive, smart kid and raise them in this sorry society, it's almost a miracle if they DON'T become mentally ill, so I don't know how we'll treat that problem. That problem, is us. Like in Pogo. We have met the enemy, and he is us.

  172. My 22 year old son's typical reaction to coming across a stupid law or rule, is to yell 'But that's not fair!' and he's absolutely right. He immediately seeks to find someone that is responsible, to direct his anger at. He wants so badly to punish whoever is responsible. He's right again. But that's not an option. We teach him, I think successfully, that such is not the way to be in our world, that it will get him nothing but trouble to be that way, but it's hard, because young people are often very idealistic and logical and fair-minded... he certainly is, and I used to be as a boy myself. So basically I have to say to him 'I know the world is crazy, but you can't take direct action against it or it will swallow you up and institutionalize or imprison you...' It's not a fun thing to have to tell him. If he were a tad more irrational and a tad more easily angered, we'd really have a problem... so I can relate to the kids that go nuts, I guess is the point... there but for the grace of chance and luck go I...

  173. I mean, when Obama got in, I was so happy because I thought that I knew that finally the Bush regime would be brought to justice for their folly and the country could heal.


    Hell, I almost, ALMOST, wanted to off somebody when I saw that justice would not be served. I'm fortunately 'sane' though, which in this context means that I learned to tolerate huge injustices routinely. Is that really 'sane' though? I often wonder.

  174. I was so looking forward to seeing GWB and and Darth Cheney in orange jumpsuits, along with Rummy and the rest of the gang.

    What a disappointment that was. How naive I was to think it even possible.

  175. Obama is a lot better than any republican alternative would have been, except possibly for Huntsman, but even there I think Huntsman would have had to be more in line with the tea party fringe than Obama is now...

    ...but let's face it. Obama's no liberal. He's a centrist republican pretending to be a democrat, period. Look at his cabinet selections if you have any doubts of that.

  176. It's weird that Obama is a Dem. but basically a centre-right conservative, and that lets the Teabaggers use their hatred of the person Obama to paint centre-right as far, far left socialism verging on communism.(West, for example)

    Also it seems odd to me that the Teabaggers use their disdain of Obama to try to completely ignore the fact that Obama is their President, and act as though their party controls government.

    These were likely the same guys who were urging everyone that no matter what their politics, they shouldn't ought to be dissing THEIR President, since he was everyones' President whether they liked it or no.

    Seems they don't have any respect for Obama and they're willing to do anything at all to prove it, if it's pre-excluding possible Obama appointments, or pre-poisoning actual Obama candidates before any official discussion or vote. It just takes two or three of them to start screeching as loud and as long as they can every time Obama wants to appoint someone to an office.

    What the fuck are they thinking? Do they really suppose that Obama is likely to propose people that they have no problem with, especially when their main problem is that Obama is the one choosing who will head these offices because HE FUCKING WON!!?!

  177. Observant,

    Some of the things you are writing seem as though that you haven't evolved at all. I would think that just by hanging out here with our old friends for the last 6 years would at least give you an insight into other world views. And if you pay attention, you would see that what you've been told on Sunday's about Atheists for instance aren't close to true.

    So it seems to me that you are still continuing to listen to the same old people you've been listening to for the last however long. Remember Mike, the Christ-Like man that you are had no problem problem calling a bunch of black people "A group of Niggers" a few years ago. Knowing full well that my wife is Black while doing it.

    So reading what you currently write, it still sounds the same. You haven't evolved at least the way I'd hoped.

    If people want to own a gun to protect their property and families, go ahead. But please, we can at least make sure that the person buying the gun is not a lunatic or has a criminal record? Is there a need for someone to own an assault rifle? Your argument that if regular dudes can't get assault rifle's then criminals will so we should too doesn't hold water. Laws might not stop bad people from getting them but it will limit them. Each day a person goes nuts. Each day a person starts to do terrible things that they didn't do before.

    On the drug front, I believe all drugs should be legal and sold through licensed "Pharmacies" in each city and State. This would take the drug dealers out of the market, put kids back in school, and decrease our prison populations because addicts don't belong there. Going there trains them to be criminals for when they get out of prison. All sales are taxable. With legalizing it, you create revenue for the Government, and you decrease liabilities because our taxes pay for the prisoners.

    Laws will be established like Alcohol. People will break them. But most won't. It's called a democracy. Traveling so much, I can say I'm in one of the greatest Countries in the world. Because each day, we can go out and do our thing and on faith, we believe that most people around us will follow the laws in place. And for those that don't, most of them will eventually be caught.

  178. I don't think video games contribute to the number of kids out there that go nuts and pick up a gun...

    I have no statistics to back this up, but [talking out my ass] it seems like there is more gun violence* now when video games are more prevalent and gun laws more restrictive then there was say 100 to 62 years ago when (I wasn't around) and kids learned to shoot when they were 7 (like I did).

    *the crazy kind where the joker shoots up a theater or turd-monger kills 1st graders, not your standard robbery or duel...

    [/talking out my ass]

  179. Is there a need for someone to own an assault rifle? Your argument that if regular dudes can't get assault rifle's then criminals will so we should too doesn't hold water.

    It really doesn't. Unless Mike has original Van Gogh's on his walls that he's not letting on about, no one who can afford an AR15 is going to break into your house. A shotgun or a pistol is more than adequate against an intruder, and if it's not you are fucked, but you were likely fucked to begin with and a bigger gun wouldn't have helped you.

    My wife asked why I didn't keep two clips loaded and I said if we should be exiting the house long before we are ever in a situation were we have to reload. This isn't call of duty.

  180. Botts, you and I haven't always seen eye-to-eye, but bravo on that last post. You are a much more patient man than I am...

    (At least when *not* talking about the so-called 'good book...' heh heh heh....)

    To tell you the truth, if the bible weren't the central source of the religion and if it didn't contain self-negating rules and examples that it then tells us that we have to follow, the lot of them together, setting up what is technically termed 'psychosis,' and it wasn't considered infallible by so many, I would never have thought it evil. I would have thought it quaint. ;-)

  181. With what we now know about brain physiology, plasticity and neurochemistry, it is not unlikely that continued roll playing games and hyper-violence is affecting people. The old saw is quite correct - repetition penetrates the dullest of minds, repetition penetrates the dullest...

  182. I would think so too, Oh Great In-Between One, but the data out of Britain suggests otherwise, no? Or so I'd heard... isn't there evidence to suggest that their society both has the gaming and the participation in it but it is not reflected in higher gun crime? To be sure, that does seem to go against common sense, I definitely agree there, especially with your point about neuroplasticity considered, but I'd heard from a few sources that Britain suggests otherwise. Perhaps they're just not so batshit as we are, or their family units are stronger or some other factor is more than making up for the gaming?

  183. A broken record perhaps but in 25 years of trauma surgery I never once treated a patient shot by a homeowner defending his or her property. Saw kids unintentionally killed by siblings, spouses shot by their partners, dads by sons, sons by dads, despondent kids and adults, drive by's, innocent bystanders, cops killed in the line (one with their own weapon), hunters shot for blowing their noses with a white tissue, several hit by bullets from 'empty' guns being cleaned, suicide by cop, one kid who played russian roulette with an automatic (a guaranteed loser every time), and even a mass shooting incident.

    No defenders.

  184. One fact is that its harder to come by a real gun in Britain than in the US

  185. Pliny; where did you practice? We had one in our neighborhood last year (East Central Florida).

  186. In the real West - Oregon. I'm not saying it never happens, I've just never seen it and the percentages relative to other outcomes is small.

  187. I am reminded by your last comment that I hear those stats *because of the fact* that one of the only significant variables that is different is those better gun laws. That's how I heard about them, come to think of it.

  188. It may be worth noting that the large majority of civilian gunshot wounds are inflicted by someone known to the victim. Most of the rest are inflicted by the police. At least in my experience (as a Head and Neck Surgeon, often called upon by trauma surgery for wounds above the clavicle), only a small poercentage are inflicted by strangers and most of these turn out to be innocent bystanders. Like Pliny, I have yet to see one inflicted by a homeowner protecting himself or his family, and this has continued to be true even though my home state of Ohio now allows concealed carry. Needless to say, this is only personal experience, but that experience has spanned more than forty years and five major cities around the country.

  189. Harvey and Pliny,

    That's exactly right. And you both have tangible experience that backs up your thoughts on the matter. Even with that experience, Mike will not listen. He hasn't backed away from his Idolatry. When you're in it, it's tough to realize it.

    I would gather to say that accidental injuries and deaths from guns far outweigh deaths from people intruding in peoples homes.

  190. Botts:

    It continues to fascinate me that Mike sees Christians like you (that is, thoughtful and open to questioning) who, although your depth of belief and your personal faith experience(s) is at least as valid as his, he perceives as not "real" Christians. If anything, I suspect that he "looks down" on you even more than upon us poor, misguided atheists/agnostics, as if you really reject Jesus/God, whereas we simply haven't found Him yet.

  191. I'm loving this Alex Jones debacle... the man that appeared on Piers Morgan and exploded in an absolute paranoid rage about his gun rights.... What a buffoon! If he thought he was helping his cause, well, not.

  192. If only all christians were like Botts.

    Sane, I mean. Lucid. Caring. Logical. Intelligent. Empathetic. Humble.

    If only. If all religious people were like Botts, we'd already be close to world peace.

  193. NEW POST IS UP!!!

    NEW POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    (We were almost at the 200 mark)

    See you all there!