"Jesus loves me, yes I know
Cause the Bible tells me so
That is all I need to hear
And so I know I'll never fear
Nothing else is in my head
Except a book by guys long dead
Science isn't telling me
What I can and cannot see
I never, ever take a look
Since I only own one book
Jesus is my only thought
When others ask me what I've bought
I’d rather pluck out both my eyes
So that I can't see the lies
That Science tells us are the truth
I think that Science is uncouth!
Telling me that things fall down
And how a cricket makes a sound
And how planets spin around the sun
And how the gears in watches run
I do not need to hear the facts
I only need religious tracts
And prayers to our Great Lord above
Who blinded me with Bible Love
It feels so good to be so dense
To live behind an iron fence
To shelter fragile minds from truth
(Indoctrinate them in their youth)
Feed them tales of God above
And all of His undying Love
And how he put things in this place
Plain as the nose there on your face
That seem to say that He's not real
That's just the lying Science deal!
He put them here to fool us guys
When we try to use our eyes
We know better, yes we do
Science is at best, untrue
At worst a strange Satanic plot
To show what is real, and what is not
Why should we care what is real?
We still have the Christian deal
Believe in God, at any cost
And look to others like we're lost
Hope for God to make it clear
When the Rapture cometh near
With nonbelievers left behind
You'll all be sorry that you whined
Of how we're descended from some beast
(I don't believe it in the least)
“No Thanks” I say to Science stuff
I think that I have had enough
Of facts and reason, Truth and Hope
I'd much prefer to be a dope."
-St. Brian the Godless
Does Christianity Dumb People Down?
Christianity needs it's believers to believe in it utterly and without reservations, but it cannot be proven in any way, being at its core completely unreal and fictional, so it necessarily must destroy a person's ability to reality-test. It accomplishes this by presenting side-by-side options to the believer which are contrary and negate each other, insisting that the person believe both, on pain of hell and damnation of course. So, God is Love, but if you doubt it He'll burn your ass in hell forever. This type of thing, over and over, will eventually erode the person's ability to even see what is real and what is not. Which is the point. The indoctrinated Christian insists on seeing the world as an expression of their belief system. They cannot merely examine the world and draw conclusions. They must make it conform to their beliefs. So when reality differs from their beliefs, they have to find a way to explain it to themselves somehow. They have to find a loophole. Thus we have the apologists, trying with all their might to make the unreal seem as real as the real.
For two millennia the religion has survived and flourished by convincing people that it's real. So it's pretty good at it by now. It has developed an "apology" for everything a rational person might advance as an argument. Christians often can spout chapter and verse of the bible in response to an argument. They've been told that the Bible is the Word of God, so while they personally won't tell you that they know everything, they will of course say that God knows everything, and since He wrote the Bible and they've memorized it, they can feel that, in effect, they do know everything, at least everything they need to know.
This is of course, PRIDE.
And it's funny. I've heard that it was a sin or something.
The greatest irony is in, for example, films such as "Jesus Camp". Have you seen it?
ReplyDelete"We need to indoctrinate our children, and teach them not simply that theirs is the way, but others are WRONG and EVIL -- to WIPE OUT other religions, because those other people are EVIL...those other people have INDOCTRINATED THEIR CHILDREN oh wait..."
Glad to see you writing. :-)
Yes, I have! Jesus Camp was really creepy.
ReplyDeleteThey had a cardboard cutout of Bush that they prayed to. Well, prayed for, but it seemed more like they were praying to it.
Staggering.
Thanks for stopping by!
Make your posts controversial and interesting, at least on the level with Stephen Law, Richard Dawkins or Dinesh D'Souza. Don't serve up pedestrian critique of christianity, it will be boring and your blog will sound like a fish lady. Dwell more on science or philosophy. Invite Christopher Hitchens, John Lennox, Richard Dawkins, etc. to post some in your blog. Avoid name-calling.
ReplyDeleteThanks Sweeterbrew. I'll take that advice to heart.
ReplyDeleteChristianity must dumb them down. Why else would they believe all the crazy shit written in the Bible?
ReplyDeleteI meab c'mon.....talking snakes, Noah's Ark, Ezikiel shit eating prophecies, dead men resurecting after THREE days, the list goes on and on and on and on......
Wow...you've got to love it when they pretend that merely being a member of their religion is proof of being "good". It is something that has bothered me for a long time. Arguing that church attendance, prayer, or even being "Christian" is somehow good, in of itself. A true testament to their level of brainwashing...
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI had posted a comment that I received on the MSNBC politics message board just now, but removed it because I'm still not sure if it wasn't a joke, it was so outrageous. But here's one even better that I saved from last year on the same message board:
ReplyDeleteNATIONAL-SECURITY-4-US
Message #21
01/17/07 02:19 AM GOD/JESUS/CHRISTIANITY IS NOT ORGANIZED RELIGION ASSHOLE EVERYTHING ELSE IS & WHAT I EXPLAINED IS WHAT IS GOING TO BE HAPPENING TO YOU DICKHEAD WHEN YOU MEET YOUR DADDY THE DEVIL & IT IS WAITING TO FUCK THE SHIT OUT OF YOU - DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU LOW-LIFE SCUMBAG FUCKING JERK-OFF OF A HUMAN BEING WHO SHOULD OF BEEN SWALLOWED & NOT CONCEIVED"
Gotta love all-caps foaming at the mouth!
September 16, 2008 9:36 AM
Hi Asylum Seeker, how's things?
ReplyDeleteI had to remove that post, but the point remains that they seem to think that membership alone conveys goodness.
As if.
But what about those christians who founded charitable institutions, universities and hospitals; those who advocated the end of slavery, those who fought for civil rights, christian scientists, poets, musicians, artists; christians advocates of interfaith and humanist understanding and cooperation, christian advocates of denuclearization, anti-war activists. Were they dumbed down?
ReplyDeleteIts always improper to generalize in this matter. The effects of christianity go both ways. There are christians who have committed murders and other crimes, and those totally bereft of knowledge of science and humanist thoughts. And there are christians who have led the human genome project and are top scientists in CERN's Large Hadron Collider.
Yes, sweetbrew, many christians survive the conditioning with most of their minds intact and do a lot of good in the world. I'm not talking about that kind, the "real" Christians. I'm talking about the type we have now involved in our politics. I am NEVER referring to "real" christians who practice love for all others. I'm only ever talking about the hypochrists. Sorry if it appeared otherwise. If you read my definitions on my first post hopefully it will clear it up for you.
ReplyDeletei really like what you've got going on here. that comment you had saved was hysterical. when i got to the part about the devil fucking the shit out of you i just lost it.
ReplyDeletei'll be sure to stop by periodically and add my thoughts.
Thank you Richelle! Really glad to see you here!
ReplyDeleteBy the way, if anybody's having trouble posting here it's probably because they ask for your "handle" and password, but by "handle" they mean your EMAIL ADDRESS and not your handle that you use here.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely. I knew at the age of ten that the Christian religion was full of paradox. I feel like being forced to attend church was a borderline form of child abuse. I had no say or rights as far as deciding whether I would accept this belief system. Anytime I raised the logical or scientific facts I was told to have faith! Most Christians are good people they just dumb themselves down to fit in to the church.
ReplyDelete"Most Christians are good people they just dumb themselves down to fit in to the church."
ReplyDelete---------------
Absolutely. However if and when they dumb themselves down enough, they become a danger to the rest of us. They may be really nice at heart but then they all vote in lockstep like ants at a picnic for whomever their authority tells them to, since they're so used to bowing to authority.
Hey Brian, nice poetry there. I mean, the "NATIONAL-SECURITY-4-US." Look at the diction, the assonance, the alliteration! Hahahahaha! Is that the a new genre? LOL! Now that, I agree, is a classic dumb down.
ReplyDeleteBut seriously, the poem in your original post is great. As my son would say, its FANTABULASTICALLY GREAT!
Thanks sweeterbrew. There's more where that came from.
ReplyDeleteAny comprehensive view of the world, if it's too narrow, can 'dumb' people down. The key notion, however, is 'narrowness.' In this sense, I don't see how Christianity dumbs people down. Christianity doesn't require Christians to deny any well tested theory, whether it's from the hard sciences or the social sciences. It allows for a wide range of views: Just look at the variation along the range from hardcore, youg earth, biblical literalist evangelicals, to the modern -- or even postmodern -- Christians of liberal Episcopal churches or academia. Christians hold a variety of views concerning Jesus, morality, the Bible, God, the church, etc. In short, while certain conceptions of Christianity may dumb one down -- just as certain narrow views of science, politics, etc. may dumb one down -- it's certainly not the case that Christianity in se dumbs one down.
ReplyDeleteEric said...
ReplyDeleteAny comprehensive view of the world, if it's too narrow, can 'dumb' people down. The key notion, however, is 'narrowness.' In this sense, I don't see how Christianity dumbs people down.
-No? Hmm. I'll try to help you.
Christianity doesn't require Christians to deny any well tested theory, whether it's from the hard sciences or the social sciences.
-Fundamentalist Christianity does. Evolution, for example. That's incredibly well-tested. And an important, central theory that much of biology hinges upon. It's the modern-day version of the flat-earthers.
It allows for a wide range of views: Just look at the variation along the range from hardcore, youg earth, biblical literalist evangelicals, to the modern -- or even postmodern -- Christians of liberal Episcopal churches or academia.
-And the more fundamentalist they get, the more they deny reality. It's a spectrum, no doubt. And I rail against Christianity but if you read my first post you might see that I have no problem with non-hyocritical Christians, "real" Christians that understand the axiom "Love Thy Neighbor" and practice it. To better define what I am against here, it's the bible-literalist Christians that insist on getting involved in politics and trying to force the entire country to conform to their belief system. The ones that JUDGE others as if they knew what was in the mind of God. Some of them will even tell you that they know exactly that, the very mind of God, since they read it in the bible. What nerve, huh?
Christians hold a variety of views concerning Jesus, morality, the Bible, God, the church, etc. In short, while certain conceptions of Christianity may dumb one down -- just as certain narrow views of science, politics, etc. may dumb one down -- it's certainly not the case that Christianity in se dumbs one down.
-A technicality. As I said above, it's a spectrum, and the nonjudgemental ones aren't the problem. I grant you the point by half.
However, let's take an hypothetical case. A scientist that is also a believing Christian. A biologist. Msybe even a damn good one. Now he might have aced his exams and he might be a very intelligent person, but the amount that he believes in his faith is the exact amount that he could have been smarter by. Said scientist had to decide what parts of his faith he would adjust to fit his science, and what parts of his science he would adjust to fit his faith, all of which is patently stupid, since the science alone most accurately describes reality. IMHO. :-)
Also Eric, we disagree on a fundamental premise here. I see any type of Christianity as a much narrower worldview than atheism. It's based in the past, it's old-style thinking, at a childish level. It's polarizing and doesn't take into account the complexity of reality. It insists that reality is much simpler than it really is. It also tends to inflate the egos of its followers as a matter of course. And I see ego as a HUGE problem in our society.
ReplyDeleteThe ONLY type of Christian that I think transcends this is the very rare type that absolutely doesn't judge others. Never even THINKS that the other person is wrong or damned because they disagree with them. Accepts that judging people (in their faith) is the province of God Himself and no other being. And accepts that they cannot know the mind of God so they cannot possibly know God's plan for the other person. That's a rare Christian indeed.
I am not sure whether Christianity dumbs you down, or if "dumb" people are more easily drawn to Christianity.
ReplyDeleteI don't like using the word "dumb" because I am not terribly comfortable pigeonholing people by intelligence, particularly IQ. For instance, my ex-husband was a mathematical savant and had an IQ above 170, but still could not remember to lock the door to the house, even after we were robbed more than 10 times. I think as a species we are still defining the meaning of the word "intelligence". In some cases, "dumbness" might be attributed to an inability to learn. In other cases, it might be attributable to mental laziness.
I think a lot of what we are as a species comes back to laziness. It seems to me that the pinnacle of evolution in ANY species would be the ability to maintain life and continuation of the species, while expending the least effort possible (thereby exposing itself to the least amount of danger possible). Look at the shark...hasn't changed much in millions of years. It has virtually reached the pinnacle of its evolution. It swims and eats and makes little sharks. In a nutshell, that is what every species is trying to successfully achieve.
Look at the human species. If intelligence were a deciding factor in continuation, there would certainly be a lot more smart people then there are now. Instead, the common person is still doing what the common person did in Elizabethan times, or Roman times, or Neandertal times. We eat, we sleep, and we make little replicas...only the toys and tools have changed. We are Neandertals with cell phones.
Ok, I am digressing all over the place. But the point I want to make is that the issue might not be "does Christianity dumb you down" but rather "can a species that evolves towards mental laziness accept living in a finite non-spiritual reality?"
Interesting take on it, Kodiak.
ReplyDeleteI would say then that since evolution depends on the environment, that we are only evolving toward laziness because we've structured our system to encourage that. And why is that? I would posit that it's because we're not overly concerned with things like learning and bettering ourselves and getting involved with others who are not like us due to beliefs and dogma that discourage that sort of thing. Change the beliefs, the environment changes. Change the environment, and we change ourselves as we will then evolve to fit it.
Just a theory though.
I don't necessarily think that Christianity dumbs people down. I think if you take the basic foundation- to love, care, respect, etc. it's a good idea as is any religion that promotes kindness. I think if you take everything written in any bible then, yes, you are setting yourself up for failure. You can be a Christian and be intelligent. You can be a Christian and be a compete moron. It depends on each individual and how they interpret the world and the things they read. I believe in freedom of speech, freedom to do what the hell I want with my body when I want to. I believe in listening to other people's thoughts, beliefs or non beliefs and doing so without judgment. I believe in the separation of church and state. I believe gay marriage should be legal, abortion should be legal. I think marijuana should be legal. I believe in women's rights. I believe in men's rights. I sometimes believe in the death penalty. (Mostly when any crimes are against children,i.e: murder and/or molestation of a child) I would kill for my children. I am a non judgmental Catholic. I do believe in Jesus. I don't believe EVERYTHING I read. I love Christmas. It's fun.
ReplyDeleteMac, what do you mean there aren't any talking snakes? There was thins one time I smoked a little too much weed and had an entire conversation with a snake...he told me to eat an apple..?? Anyway, I look forward to chatting with everyone. I'm going to stop rambling now...
Dee said...
ReplyDeleteI don't necessarily think that Christianity dumbs people down. I think if you take the basic foundation- to love, care, respect, etc. it's a good idea as is any religion that promotes kindness.
-----------------------------
See, I agree mostly except on it not dumbing people down. Here's why. What you mention above is all wonderful, but it's all directly attributable to the words of Jesus in the Gospels. But, the problem is that the rest of the bible conflicts with the love message of Jesus. Just read Leviticus sometimes. And far too many Christians are taught to interpret the bible literally. Or else. So once again, as I stated in my opening premise, the religion presents two different and mutually exclusive options and INSISTS that the believer accept them both, side-by-side, together. Over time this erodes one's ability to reality test, and even to reason. Jesus loves you, and tells us all to love our neighbor, but if we don't God will fricassee us forever. Because He loves us so. Insanity!
If I examine God and realize that I'm more moral than He is, that's pretty good proof to me that He doesn't exist, at least, not as advertized. I mean, I'm no angel. I'm just a saint.
Oh, but I loved the rest of your post and agree heartily. Christmas is great. It makes children happy.
ReplyDeleteI do object to Santa Claus, though. There can be no justification telling your child an abject lie. It's ridiculous, unless you want to teach your child not to trust you. And yet, most people would think me an ogre for saying so.
Flying Monkeys make me pray!
ReplyDeleteHowdy St B. Good luck with this bloggy thing.
Thanks, tbrough. Glad to have you aboard!
ReplyDeleteI know this is your old blog, but I thought I might add another comment because of a discussion I had with my husband. It has to do with dietary restrictions and religion. I know that Catholics don't really have any except for not eating meat on Friday, Muslims cannot eat pork and Jews cannot eat pork or mix meat with dairy. Not to mention their food must or should be halal or kosher, respectively, if they are very religious.
ReplyDeleteAnywho, I was explaining the reasoning behind all of this to my husband. Back in the day of Jesus there was not enough meat for everyone to eat everyday, hence they made Wednesdays and Fridays "fish" days, or so I call them. Most super religious Catholics think it is because we are sacrificing for God. NO! Muslims/Jews cannot eat pork because many moons ago pork was not farm raised. The wild pigs, if not cooked properly caused trichinosis. Killing many people. This is the only conclusion I can come to being that pigs are proven to be the cleanest animals. My husband will argue and say its because they are dirty, but its not true. Chickens and cows are way more filthy than pigs. It's the trichinosis. And the meat and dairy thing, honestly I am not sure. I cannot really figure this one out. I have been trying. I think perhaps due to lack of preservatives long ago the dairy was making people sick. They chose not to mix their meat and dairy trying not to get sick. I'm still working on this "theory." My point was that there is a logical reason behind the dietary restrictions, but most religious use God/sacrificing, etc. as a reason. So, in a way, yes all religion dumbs you down to think that God is the reason for everything, including your diet. If you look into it more it's not God. Duh. I happen to enjoy a nice grilled cheese with bacon on a Friday. Ha ha
Yes Dee, I've always heard that the old dietaqry restrictions were originally put in place due to the fact that the proscribed practices all led to sickness, and since they didn't understand bacteria beak then they naturally figured that God didn't like it when they did those things. It was hygeine, pure and simple. And then it became a BELIEF, and thus written in stone forever. Now that we don't need to do it anymore, they still do, since it's the LAW.
ReplyDeleteObservant...
ReplyDeleteI KNOW that you are going to disagree with this but I think that religion(Christianity) is like denying reality.
It is like saying to yourself, my puppy pees on the floor and if I stop giving it water then it will stop peeing on the floor.
What I'm saying is that you can be right(about morality and, hey, gays ARE odd) and wrong at the same time.
If I could get you to imagine that Botts might be right...
If I could get you to even imagine that there is only one GOD even, but you believe in, what 2, GOD/Jesus, three in one(are you kidding me), what about four-
Father, Son, Holy Ghost, Satan.
Tell me that raining frogs on a nation is not gratuituously evil!?
What i do nοt realizе is if tгuth be told hοω
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