Thursday, September 18, 2008


Gentle Jesus meek and mild
How come your old man's so wild?
Killing people left and right
Showing off his godly might
Destroying mankind in a flood
Cursing us with boils and blood
Froggies rain down from the sky
All of the firstborn must die
You're so nice and kind and good
Always doing what you should
You never even talk of hate
So why is daddy so irate?
With him it's threats and death and fear
He never even sheds a tear
One small misstep, one tiny sin
And then he doesn't let you in
He sends you down to meet his friend
And there you'll meet your fiery end
(It burns your flesh both night and day
Until the last stars fade away)
He loves us not, or so it seems
Unless he loves to hear our screams
He made us to be what we are
And punishes us when we get that far
You are his son, or so they say
And yet you're both like night and day
I wouldn't want to get you mad
But are you sure that he's your dad?
-St. Brian the Godless

We’ve all heard the phrase “God is Love” but what does that mean, really? If the God of the Christians is love, exemplifies love, then I think we have a problem. Because we will have to redefine “love” as something that in no way prevents God from punishing many of us eternally with searing agony for merely doubting His divine existence. We have to redefine love as something that allows for the loving Creator torturing His creations. How can torture ever be love? Especially when you consider that the torture will never end, so it’s not as if it’s to teach you a lesson. After you learn the lesson, you’re still stuck in hell forever.

Christians love to talk about how Jesus is God incarnate. By God we must assume that they mean Yaweh. (Or Jehova if you follow the error of early German translators) If that’s so, then why is Jesus nothing like His Father from the Old Testament? Compare Leviticus to any of the Gospels in content and tone. The latter sound loving, at least the parts with Christ’s message delineated in them. The former couldn’t be more evil if it were written by Old Scratch himself. Your son gets drunk and loud sometimes? Take him to the town and have the men of the town stone him to death. Problem solved. Your slave needed a beating? If he gets up in a day or two, no harm, no foul. If you kill him, then you’ve sinned. So don’t kill him, just beat the living crap out of him. Avoid vital organs as you pummel. There’s even a quote about throwing the babies of your enemies to the ground, onto rocks. Dashing babies to death is somehow love?

Nowadays, getting stoned doesn’t mean what it used to…

Modern Christians (of the hypochrist stripe) seem to have no problem reconciling the two extremes in one identity. God is love, but God is also torture. God made us all to love him, but if we don’t, or if we simply can’t find enough evidence for His existence in the creation that He made in order to believe in Him, then our Loving Father has no problem consigning us to the cosmic incinerator, for the rest of time. Sure. No problem with that. It all makes sense. Providing of course that your logical mind has been neutered.

Y’ever burn your fingers? It HURTS. Now imagine that all over your body, all the time, forever. Foever. Forever. Somehow, that is love. God loves us, except when he decides not to anymore. He made us to be what we all are, and then punishes us when we aren’t what he wants us to be? Can’t He get it right?

It’s all well and good to say that the ways of God are mysterious, but logic is like mathematics. It’s implacable, even in the case of the Deity. If the Deity behaves contrary to logic as regards to the question of love, then the Deity is proven not to love, at least as we understand the word “love” itself. There’s no mystery about it. Love never involves torture. The two concepts are incompatible with each other.

The words of Jesus Christ indicate to me a philosophy of loving all others unconditionally. As a skeptic I might try to make a case that even Jesus Himself never existed as an historical figure (we have virtually no hard evidence that he ever really walked the earth) but I cannot deny the beauty of the words attributed to Him. And as a logical person I also cannot deny the ugliness of rest of the Bible. So where’s the disconnect? Why does this disparity exist? And it’s not only between Yaweh and Jesus, it’s also between the words of Jesus and the rest of the New Testament.

The simple explanation is the one that Christians cannot allow themselves to hear. That the transcendental beauty of Jesus’ philosophy was recognized by the early church founders and was seen as the perfect bait for a trap set to ensnare the minds of the simple people. Starting with Constantine or even before, these people were the early precursors to Niccolo Macchaivelli. The Old Testament already existed of course, and by writing a new one with Jesus as the star but with plenty of control mechanisms implanted into the surrounding texts, and connecting it to the old, they gave it gravitas. They made it credible. They needed a carrot, and found Jesus. They needed a stick, and there it was in Leviticus and the rest of the Old Testament.

It’s brilliant, really. And it still works like a charm. No better control mechanism exists. Macchaivelli would be proud. Or come to think of it, perhaps old Niccolo learned his dirty tricks from the masters who practiced and perfected them centuries before. The founders of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.


  1. Okay, how many of you, when you first saw the title of this one, thought that it was going to be an autobiography?

  2. Brian, you have hit upon one of the greatest discrepancies, one which I was never able to connect. It's a shame that I'm the first responder after you, all I can do is recite what my church said. It went something like this: God loves you so much that he wants you to be good and follow his rules. He has to punish you to keep you safe from evil, it's the only way you will learn and not repeat your mistakes. Because if you are evil and sinful, then you will belong to Satan and not him. Much like your parents punish you because they love you.
    From the very beginning God had troubles! Created this perfect world, created man in his image, and BAM.....out of the garden you go. Adam and Eve had how many days before God saw his image disobey? Thousands of years of trouble with his kids followed. It never made sense that an all powerful God would go to so much trouble to create his perfect world, and then be disappointed in what he had done. If creating the world, and life to go in it was a gift, why did he make it so miserable? He had to know, right?
    My personal belief is that every God myth stems from the same place. Early man had no way to explain the unexplanable except by creating magic. An unseen God throwing lighting bolts, or sending rain, or explaining why terrible things were happening to you. The Old Testament was not written by a God, but by men. I think they really were fearful of all that was unknown, wrote down their stories and theories of their understanding of the world at that time.
    The New Testament is more sinister, and I agree with your assessment. A furthering of the myth to control people. Much is known now about WHO chose the books of the NT, which were discarded, how many years after Jesus' death they were written, what the political circumstances were at the time, and what goals church leaders and Rome were trying to accomplish, etc. I think Jesus the man could have existed. There were many prophets and seers and rabbis at the time. He was deemed to be "the one." Any of the others would have served the same purpose.

  3. I'm a Blog Star!
    I love my daddy....

  4. LOL... that post was from my dog, Walter. (Actually it was my wife, who has power of attorney)

  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

  6. But they need!! They need, they need, they need.

    They (christians/catholics) need to believe that there is something more. They need to be told, they are sometimes like sheep.

    At least that is how I see my evil twin and my parental units. Is it all they know? They have been indoctrinated at such an early age that they now depend on that thought: that there is someone out there looking down at them and nodding with pleasure at their holy christian ways. But I think of it as time wasted. Not seeing reality, but instead perpetuating the myth of god.

    But don't christians do good? Of course they do, they are people and people are inherently kind and generous - it is programmed in a sense to ensure our continued existence. That is why all peoples/cultures do good in some way or another. I don't have to believe in god to do good, and neither do you.

    I don't need god as an excuse for anything, except to feel guilty about things called sins. Do I believe in sin? I believe that there are choices made that are detrimental to our society. There are actions that harm our family, decisions that are selfish and harmful. Are they sins? No they are choices, decisions, actions. Are they wrong? Yes when judged by the majority as so.

    So many christians say that the bible is a moral compass that humans should follow - are you kidding me? Even if I just read the NT, I still wouldn't understand it. It subjugates women, who are told to turn the other cheek for another slap from their righteous husband.

    And those who KNOW what god is thinking? They know what they are thinking, they know what they would want god to think, if there was a god. But even when I'm whispering in your mucked up wax-filled ear, you would only hear what you want to and I still wouldn't tell you what I think.
    You are not worthy.

  7. An unauthorized autobiography ( ??)

    Hey, finaly gots me a pic of my peaches on here.

    Brian keep up the good work.

    as to the topic...

    God exists because god says he( she/it) exists, don't question this, OR you'll go to hell.

  8. Do you all wanna know something? I am afraid to die. No joke. I am absolutely afraid of dying. I think I was actually traumatized as a child/teenager because I saw so many people around me die: my grandma, aunt, and uncle all in one year. They were all very sick. My friend's little brother was killed when we were in high school. Two of my friends and their mother were killed by a drunk driver also. It scares the shit out of me to think one day that's it..I'm gone. I guess in a sick, sad way I kinda have hope that maybe it's not the end. I know I'm going to hear a lot of flak for this. I just needed to say it though.

  9. i think you've brought up a really good point brian.

    the whole "god is love" thing never made any sense to me either. "god" is supposed to be like our father and we are "his children" so why would you ever reject your own child to be tortured?

    i've brought this up with a few of my christian friends who believe all homosexuals will go to hell even if they believe in god and live a good "christian life." if in 15 years my son comes to me and says "mom, i'm gay" i would not think any less of him and i would certainly never even think to punish him.

    if god is love i would think it would be a type of love far beyond what humans are even capable of, seeing how he is not supposed to be fallible, like man. so wouldn't god's love then be the type of love that all humans try to achieve? a truly unconditional love. a love that can be answered with hate, but still persists eternally.

    if my own son were to grow up and hate me i would still love him as much as i ever had. he could never let me down or disappoint me. if there is a god, i think that's the kind of love he would have for us.

  10. Dee..

    I think everyone is afraid of dying...a little at least..The fact of the matter is NO ONE knows what happens after we die..My Mom died seven years ago and I still talk to her everyday..I would love to believe that when I die I could see her again..hear her voice..all that good stuff. But at the same time I think I would rather that she continue on to the next stage of her journey..Whatever that may be. (If you couldn't tell my ideas about the after life run more along the lines of reincarnation than heaven and hell.) I have had some experiences in my life that give me hope that this one life is not all that there is. I am sure you guys will dog on me for this but I really mean it. I won't go into it now as it is kinda personal and you guys don't know anything about me..I have been reading all of your posts for quite some time but I have shared very little about myself with all of you, I am kinda self conscious. Perhaps it is the beer I am drinking or maybe this place seems more friendly..but I felt like sharing my ideas...not beliefs...just plain old ideas. sorry that was kinda rambly...I gotta go make chilli-dogs and watch John Stewart.. Peace

  11. Dee and Michael, I appreciate that you said your thoughts and fears "out loud." We all have them. Being able to articulate them is a good thing. I've gone through different stages. When I was a kid I was afraid of dying because I knew I'd go straight to Hell. :-) When I was a young mom, I was afraid of dying only because I'd leave my kids behind. Now my kids are grown, and I feel good that I can go at any time and they'll be ok. Here's a fear you don't hear too often....I'm afraid of living TOO LONG. My wish is to die before I get incapacitated, no matter what age that comes at. My business is the elderly, and I know what I don't want. I've seen the ravages of living too long. I don't want to be demented, in need of diapers, not being able to see well enough to read, walk, or live independently. I'm afraid of having all my decision making abilities taken from me, people taking over where I live, what time I get up, what clothes they put on me, and *God* forbid, outliving everyone I love and being left at the mercy of strangers. This is coming from someone who PROVIDES that care and housing to the elderly, does it well, and with love and dignity. It's not enough. The pain of the elderly in those circumstances is heartbreaking, no matter how much better we try to make it for them.
    I don't believe in God or Heaven, so I'm not scared of the Hell part anymore. I think when I'm dead, I won't even know it, so that's not scary either. If I'm a vital, independent firecracker at 90, so be it. If I'm decrepit at 75, then I want to GO. I don't believe in life being preserved at all costs. Quality matters.

  12. Jude I agree with you. I actually think euthanasia should be legal. Like I said before I saw my grandmother dying. She did not know anyone or anything that was going on. As young as I was when she passed away I knew that is not the life she would have wanted. My mother knew it as well, but there wasn't anything she could do for her.I actually also agree with Michael. I have a strange feeling that there is "another life" instead of heaven or hell. I'm more afraid of there being nothing rather than something-even if it is hell. I am in no way an angel and if in fact there is a heaven I don't know if I would be allowed in. Which touches on the God of Love point. I am a moral person on the whole, but I pretty much did things the bible told me I shouldn't. I believe things the my religion told me I shouldn't. I am pretty much a Catholic school girl gone wild. Haha. So should I not be allowed into heaven because I lived my life the way I wanted to? I never intentionally hurt anyone. I just live and let live.Anyway, I am glad that this blog is more friendly than Dinesh's. I could see some people now telling me how dumb I am. :-)

  13. If there's a god, perhaps there's a heaven. That's one possibility for the after life. One I don't happen to think is realistic, but it helps a lot of people deal with the fear. Unfortunately when there's a heaven, there's a hell, at least that's how most Christians see it. So there's fear of hell. And control of the people by using hell to scare them. IMHO, this is all complete BS of course. If I'm a good person, God will let me in. After all, God is love, right? So there can't even BE a hell. Hell was man-made, for sure. The Big Stick to the Jesus Carrot.

    If when we die, we go out like a candle like many or probably most atheists believe, well, this is a very uncomfortable concept for most people. Your life's experiences and memories erased, all that you were gone forever. Pretty scary, I suppose, but why really? I mean, where were you a year before you were born? I'll tell you. You were not yet alive, and so you were dead. Not alive equals dead, no? It's not what we normally think of death, but wherever you were a year before you were born, that's where you'll be a year after you die. Your consciousness anyhow. And when I really thought about it, about just laying down, say, and closing my eyes and drifting off to a sleep that never ends, well, frankly it doesn't sound all that bad to me. When you go to sleep you can feel your consciousness slipping away, and it's not terrifying, it's relaxing. And you won't feel or sense your memories slipping away from you, because you won't be conscious to sense them doing so by then. It can't be terrifying; you're not awake. So I'm not scared of that anymore.

    But I feel strongly that there's more to it.

    I think that we're all consciousness. The entire universe. I think this place is like a huge dream that we all share. In whose mind you might ask? In ours. In other words, only our minds "exist" and we simply dream up reality together, including our bodies. We don't "make it up" anymore than we can make up and plan our own dreams. We can't control the dream. We just live it. And the dream follows rules because our minds like rules and require them. It's a lot more complex than this, but those are the basics. On the DD boards I used to call this my "Big Brain" speculation. So, if this is true, if this is reality, then when we die we simply have a change in viewpoint, from the first-person singular to the first-person plural. We go from only being conscious of our body and the life we lived here, to being less conscious of our former individuality but instead conscious of all personalities, and all data, all the other consciousness, in the universe. We are still the person we were, but we're also all the other people and animals and trees and rocks and planets and stars and gasses and energies. All at once. The default state, as it were.
    Instead of calling it the first-person plural, perhaps it's better to call it the first plural person.

    So that's three possibilities, none of which I fear much anymore. I mean, I fear the mangling, so to speak, but not the death itself. I don't like pain any more than the next person. But the death part, not so scary, really.

  14. I am pretty much a Catholic school girl gone wild.
    Hey, I think I saw that video!

  15. Well Brian, you made a lot of sense. I guess death just traumatized me. I always said that when I do die I want to go out funny. For example, I hope I'm a little old lady crossing the street and I get hit by a mini car full of clowns. And, as I am laying smooshed they all pile out one after the other. :)
    Haha Brian..I made that video...just kidding. But, I know atheist or not no man can resist that uniform.That's not an opinion either, I proved it. LOL

  16. How do we want to die?
    Is that the question?

    I'd like to die in my sleep, like my dear Uncle Joe.....not screaming and yelling like the 37 passengers on his bus !!

    Nahh, I always thought if I had a choice, I'd like to ride that bike in the pic off the Grand Canyon....just to see how long I could hold on to her...................................................splat

  17. I posted this one at Botts more fits here:

    If the stars fall down on me,
    And the sun refused to shine,
    Then may the shackles be undone,
    May all the old words cease to rhyme,
    If the sky turned into stone,
    It will matter not at all,
    For there is no heaven in the sky,
    Hell does not wait for our downfall!

    Let the voice of reason chime,
    Let the friars vanish for all time,
    God's face is hidden, all unseen,
    You can't ask him,
    What it all means,
    He was never on your side,
    God was never on your side,
    Let right or wrong alone decide,
    God was never on your side.

    See ten thousand ministries,
    See the holy, righteous dogs,
    They claim to heal,
    But all they do is steal,
    Abuse your faith,
    Cheat and rob,

    If god is wise,
    Why is he still,
    When these false prophets,
    Call him friend,
    Why is he silent,
    Is he blind?!
    Are we abandoned in the end?

    Let the sword of reason shine,
    Let us be free of prayer and shrine,
    God's face is hidden, turned way,
    He never has a word to say,
    He was never on your side,
    God was never on your side,
    Let right or wrong alone decide!
    God was never on your side!
    He was never on your side,
    God was never on your side,
    Never on your side!
    Never on your side!
    God was never on your side,
    Never on your side...

    How did that Motorhead guy get so smart?

  18. Hi all,

    I didn't realize that there were additional postings. I only saw the first posting and then it ended abruptly on the 17th. Brian, is there a way to categorize or date the postings so it's easier to see the latest stuff?


    Lloyd the Lurker

  19. Thanks, Dee. :-)

    Mac, I bet you could hold onto it for about a mile, and then it would become incredibly difficult.

    Lloyd now Harpochondriac, I don't know if I'm sure what you mean. Perhaps you have to log on to see all the posts in a thread? Not sure. If you go to the main page you can see all three pages I have up at the moment, this being the most recent, and if you click the titles you see the responses page and can post. If you're talking about not seeing the newer posts of mine, my new title pages, they appear most recent at top on the main page.

  20. Plus there's a blog archive on the top right of the home page and the main pages (black pages) of each post of mine. You can click on the titles.

    The main page address is

    Did I cover the issue? I'm pretty new to this stuff. Hope so. :-)

    Oh. and Mac: How DID motorhead ever get so smart, indeed.

  21. I know I have said this before on DD's blog but I'll go ahead and state it again.

    If god is omniscent and infallible and he created all; then this means that he created Satan and the Angels right? If Satan turned to Evil, why cant god make things right?

    If god can make things right and he isnt, then doesnt that mean that he really doesnt have love and compassion for us?

    If god cant make things right, then he isnt infallible and omniscient at all and that would make everything in religion a lie right?

    Am I forgetting something? Is there a third option. It just feels wrong to prostrate thyself before thy throne.

    We are asked to blindly believe something that is full of holes and yet to not believe is to be punished forever.

  22. Not third option except for the faithful believers who have been conditioned to be able to ignore logic and accept contrary premises side-by-side.

    Your point about Satan is I would say entirely valid, as are so many other similar points that we can point out to the believers to no avail. It appplies to us, too. He makes us to be who we are, and punishes us when we get that far...

  23. I have a really nice dog. A pug. Now, he's a very loving doggy but he doesn't obey me very well at all. Not that well trained. He sometimes makes a mistake.

    Oddly enough I have never even thought of tossing him into a roaring fire for his presumptuousness. I just love him.

  24. Hello Observant. Thanks for coming.

    It's not what? I didn't get your post, sorry.

  25. Hey, Brian!

    Don't know if you saw this before on the other blogs, but I mentioned there that I once not too long ago had a college class in comparative religions. For those that have voiced a fear that there is nothing beyond death, I ask: why fear?
    It seems to me (only my opinion)that complete and utter nothingness would suit me just fine. I wrote in my daily journal for the class that I would find it torturous to be compelled to sing hosannas at the foot of God's throne for all eternity, as I don't like to sing. I also wrote that for God to have given Adam and Eve free will, then tell them not to use it, then go away and spy on them to see if they'd disobey just so he could jump out of the bushes and holler "Aha!" when they did as they were created to do, and finally punish them is a moronic fable, to say the least. I also posted to a blog, saying that the proof that the bible is less than authoritative lies in the fact that god had to make a second deal with humans after it became apparent that the first one was flawed.
    If God is thus fallible, then He cannot also be omniscient.
    There's a little poem in Dawkins' "The God Delusion":

    Can omniscient God who
    Knows the Future find
    The Omnipotence to
    Change his Future mind?

    Shows the contradictory and incompatible nature of commonly ascribed aspects of the godhead...

  26. Gearhead, excellent post. Again, so many points to be made like the one that you just made, so many you can't count them, so much illogic and hypocrisy and silliness, and yet they can take it seriously. It's a conditioning thing.

    IMHO, the only redeeming thing about the entire Bible, NT and OT, are the words of Jesus Christ. Specifically the parts about loving all others.

  27. GearHed; I'm not ashamed to admit that I fear oblivion. Obviously, once I'm gone, it's over and I'll have ended, but it's the fear of leaving things undone that gets to me the most. I would leave behind a wife, daughter and mother if I kicked right now. I worry about them. Plus, I love living, so the idea of not living bothers me to no end.

    PS: I don't fear oblivion more than I fear having to kiss a psychopathic sun gods ass for all eternity.

  28. RBW, I liked that... especially the last sentence there.

    I agree with the loss of your family being a consideration and the sorrow of not seeing being able to be there for them and all that. It's hard to deal with. It's our curse. The more emotional you are, the more pain you can feel like this. That's life. I'll take the pain. :-)

  29. I assume that when it comes thinking about the people you leave behind, ceasing to exist does become a bit of a worry. It is actually the reason why my otherwise areligious family members enjoy holding onto a faint belief in an afterlife: just to have one last chance to see deceased loved ones. The concern is a testament to how we define ourselves and our world: through our relevance to other people and their relevance to us.

    Personally, being as haplessly asocial as I am, I can actually not worry about passing into oblivion. But, then again, I do not have any dependents yet, so I assume that it is a perspective that could change easily when other people's lives are dependent on your own.

    But, of course, even if there were an afterlife, such things happen due to dying alone, oblivion or no. So, I guess I am not quite sure what the worry is. Once you're already dead and buried, where is the worry about what happens afterward?

  30. RBW and Bri,

    I wasn't in any way trying to belittle your fears. I, too feel a need to accomplish more than I yet have, and am not ready to cash in my chips. I'm a single Dad, with two teens (and my X is an alcoholic former Pentecostal Christian that my kids don't want to see anymore).
    Another facet of my being is that I'm a (30% VA rated) disabled veteran (back problems and more or less constant pain from jumping out of C-130s for 10 years).
    But it kinda gets my hackles up when the fundies used to assume that all atheists were immoral flaming liberals. I consider myself a conservative, and have voted either Republican or Independent since 1980. Yeah, I know. GWB has mucked things up quite handily, but I don't buy all that stuff Clif K. ranted about as if there was some sort of "Neocon Master Plan" to line their pockets. I don't think George & his buddies are that smart.

    Anyway, gotta go. The kids are hollering for supper.

    P.S. Y'all can call me Gear, OK?

  31. I know this isnt part of the original post, but have any of you ever read any of this?

    Read the names at the bottom. Makes you wonder, this was all before Iraq started.

  32. I keep getting a "bad url" code when I try to go there, stefan.

  33. Apparently the link doesn't work because "www." isn't supposed to be included. (Insert raised eyebrow here).

    That one should work (it does for me at least).

  34. sorry, I just cut and paste from the website.

  35. heyyy st. brian...
    i was just wondering, are you an atheist or you're just antiChristian/antiBible...?

  36. I'm an atheist who's anti-bible but pro-Christ. As in, I love the words and philosophy of Jesus. Love Thy Neighbor. It's the optimal path. But I can't stand the rest of the bible other than the parts about Jesus. To me it's all just a bunch of lies put together so as to control the people that were attracted by Christ's goodness. As in, the Christ part of the bible is the bait for the trap, IMHO.

    The words of Jesus are the only worthwhile things in the whole book. Again, my opinion.

    I am "anti-christian" when said Christian is a hypocrite that doesn't live out Christ's message in their life. When they act oposite to how Jesus would have acted.

    I'm an atheist, but I'm also spiritual. Go figure.