Monday, September 15, 2008

Opening Post on Religion from St. Brian

"Religion is most like a computer virus for brains. It comes complete with instructions for development and propagation of the virus, and code that prevents the person from deleting it or noticing that it doesn't conform to reality. It is orchestrated, organized, and officially sanctioned psychosis, made easily digestible and palatable to the masses." -St. Brian the Godless

This is a place for discussion regarding the effects of religion in general and Christianity in particular on society. All are welcome.

In particular we will discuss its deleterious effects on intelligence in general and how religious adherents often behave in a manner diametrically opposed to their stated moral principles. We will discuss the idea of programming and how the only difference between organized religion and a cult is the number of adherents.

We will also delve into biblical parables and stories and discuss how tenuous they are in the face of logic and reason in this modern age.

Whether Jesus ever even really existed as an historical figure will also come up from time to time.

Cultural hot-button issues such as abortion and gay marriage will of course be frequent topics.

Also a topic of discussion will be the increasingly rare variety of Christian that actually does adhere to the words and actions of Jesus Christ as extolled in the gospels. I wanted to make particular mention of this sort of person since they're not a part of the problem society faces, they're a part of the solution. So my DISCLAIMER on this site is that I have nothing against "real" Christians, and bear then no ill will whatsoever. In fact I welcome them as friends.

Spirituality in general will also come up, more in contrast to religion than as a part of it, since in my opinion religion is the opposite of real spirituality.


Writing a blog is an evolving process for me in more ways than one. For instance, I'm trying to soften the tone of this place. On reflection my initial post here was a bit too hostile and narrow-minded sounding. I'd rather focus on discussion rather than casting stones when I'm far from sinless myself. (I hope all the Christian readers appreciate my usage of that last line there)

Thanks for visiting. Please don't hesitate to leave a comment.

-St. Brian


  1. Thanks for stopping by, pboy. I wonder if anyone else from the old DD boards will visit?

  2. Howdy St. Brian!

    Sucks that we might not have Dinesh to yell at anymore, I'm trying to get him to work with us on something new...

    I'll keep you informed.

  3. I aded a pic to my profile
    its funny LOL!

  4. Hey Brian,
    Just stopping by to saay hi, and check out your new haunt.

  5. Good to see you here, Mac.

    I plan on popularizing it everywhere I can think of. I guess I'll be a spammer for a while on other sites.

    Tell your friends!

  6. If you want a little bit of increased exposure, try joining the Atheist blogroll or Planet Atheism.

    The first one is pretty easy to join, but probably won't help at all. The other one could probably help with traffic quite a bit, but I think they might have some sort of unstated criteria...I dunno.

  7. "And all the hypochrists as well, of course, if they so desire. ?-)- St Brian

    Wouldn't this site be missing just a little something without hypochrists?

  8. Joseph is Publius. I got the google thing screwed up. All fixed.

  9. This is pretty cool. I setup my profile. Like the mullet?

  10. Wouldn't this site be missing just a little something without hypochrists?
    Yes Publius. Don't worry. I built it, and they will come.

    I'll be spamming on the christian blogs in the near future, among other things. One thing I learned from DD is that the controversial titles draw people in.

    And yes, way cool mullet.

  11. Excellent, a brand new place to stalk. Thank you for setting it up.

    SBtG, I apologize for what I said on DD's blog. The remarks you made to some on there were completely deserved.

    Newly Outed Godless Hippie Pinko Babykiller on Rye

  12. Thanks 'yote. You're welcome to stalk here anytime.

  13. SBtG, I apologize for what I said on DD's blog. The remarks you made to some on there were completely deserved.
    What made you change your mind?

    I don't even really recall what you said, to be truthful.

  14. Faith is necessary.

    Necessary to believe things without evidence.

    Necessary to believe things that have evidence to the contrary.

    Necessary to believe things that are not true.

    Without faith, self-deception becomes very difficult.

  15. What made you change your mind?

    I don't even really recall what you said, to be truthful.


    At the time, I thought you were being too harsh with one of the commenters. I think I used the word "troglodytic". But after review... they were asking for it.


  16. Thanks for the post, Spock. (Raises hand in split-fingered Vulcan salute) Good point about faith. It's pretty worthless in the world. Another name for belief without evidence. Belief is inherrently defective in that beliefs are not update-able. I prefer thinking.

    Hey, did you know that the Hasssidic Jews use a phrase when they shake hands on a diamond deal? "Mazel und broche..."
    It means, "Live long and Prosper."

  17. Oh yeah... I remember troglodytic. Good word.

    Glad you've changed your opinion of me.

    So is it Charles or "yote?"

  18. I'm always a day late and a dollar short, but I'm here and ready to eat me some cheesecake. Just kidding.

    Gosh now I need to get a pic.

  19. HI TJ. My mom makes a really mean cherry cheese pie. It's to die for. Then of course you wake up in cheesepie heaven and get to gloat at all the cake eaters that went to hell...

  20. testing, testing, one(and a)two(and a..)

  21. By the way, if anybody's having trouble posting here it's probably because they ask for your "handle" and password, but by "handle" they mean your EMAIL ADDRESS and not your handle that you use here.

  22. Oh, yea..

    .. I did say that you look different than I pictured you from your comments on D'Souza's blog.

    How does one 'get a pic' up and running?

  23. HI Pboy! Finally!

    I just inserted my pic in my profile.

    That pic of me was on my wedding day. It's actually a lot more formal than I am in person. I have much longer hair now.

    Glad you made it! :-)

  24. Here I just got used to you lookin' like that, now I have to 'picture' you with long hair!

    Synapse overload, synapse overload!

    I was thinking that you could ask MIW and Observant to email you some 'truth' for us to have some 'smashing' fun!

  25. I'm with p-boy...I had a different image in my mind. That's not to say it's bad, just different.

    My pic is of a 53 Harley, not mine, but one I like a lot. Just go to your profile and load something into the image box...if I can figure it out, anyone can :-)

  26. I was thinking that you could ask MIW and Observant to email you some 'truth' for us to have some 'smashing' fun!
    I would love to, but perhas it's better if you ask them. It's more pedestrian coming from me. I will though, if you don't want to...

  27. I've made a few customizations to the blog... My pic is more up-to-date, and my little friend is there to help me type.

  28. interesting site. it appears to be a critical anti-christian site,but then you so eloquently state the philosophy that the christian religeon says the beleive. in my experiance, the watchword of their religeon are arrogance,intolorance, and aggression. arrogance to to say that either you worship our god or you worship our anti-god, only you don't realize it. intolerance and aggerssion i can sum up in one phrase from the bible. "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." not only can you not tolerate them, but you must actively and aggressively exterminate them. hows that for god's love.

  29. sorry about the spelling of the last post, i can't type without looking at the keys, and i sent it without looking first.

  30. Thanks for the post, Todd.

    I never care about spelling errors or typos unless they're in the body of a post telling me how stupid I am. Then I let them know.

    But I make them myself all the time, so no sweat there! :-)

  31. In my mind one of the worst hypocrisies that you can commit is to say that you're morally superior and then prove otherwise by your actions and words. This is, alas, the common failing of the hypochrists. Arrogance and a sense of entitlement and superiority to all others that do not beleive as they do. Even a supercilious attitude toward those genuinely blessed with some intelligence. They feel so good about being the only ones that "got it right" that they are perfectly willing to condemn those that "got it wrong" as if they were the Deity Himself. "Judge not lest ye be judged" means to them that God will judge those that judge them wrong, and not the reverse. Their huge egos prevent them from ever noticing that they're the ones in the wrong. So whatever we throw at them to try to wake them out of their slumber, they throw back in our faces with a cry of "I know you are, but what am I?"

    Their ability to reality-test has been surgically removed and their intellect neutered by implacable dogma.

    It is a sad situation, and a very frustrating one. No doubt.

  32. I always, however thought goddess1prevail was a sponge....a very pretty sponge ;-)

  33. Wow Brian,
    The blog is fast becoming a popular place!

  34. So you like bikes Huh Mac?
    A friend of mine Eddie owns Thundercycles in Ft Lauderdale. Check out their website

    You may have heard of them on the discovery channel, they did the east cast west coast competitions and he won.

  35. *scratches head* it should show 'Yote, though it's no secret. I have no idea why it changed. I never edited anything namewise in my profile.

  36. You look stoned on both your pictures including your wedding day. That's what I'm talking about.

  37. You have to add a 'follow this blog' widget to see the 'pics'.

  38. Hello Botts, 'Yote, Pboy, Goddess, and Mac! And anyone that I forgot from the old DD board!

    It's late as I type this and so I will go into more detail tomorrow in answering your individual posts, but I am very happy to see so may people stopping by, so many familiar "faces" if you will. I know that this blog is hardly as glamorous a place as the one we all came from, but I do hope to at least provide a common ground in the future for all of us to meet up at. I know that all of you are too prolific to confine yourselves to any one locale and that you're naturally going to find new homes where the volume and exposure is greater than on my tiny little blog here. But I shall endeavor to at least provide this page so that we can touch bases and even perhaps, dare I hope, discuss weighty matters as of old on occassion. It's a learning curve for me so I humbly ask your indulgence, and I like to think that the overall quality will improve over time. As an important aside, I respect you all and value your thoughts so much that I'd like to propose that in the future you all can have a turn at writing the main post of blogs that appear here. I would step aside and give all credit to you of course for the post, for what that's worth. And I think the concept of guest speakers is a good one and can only make the blog stronger and more fun. I think I shall also extend this offer to even some of my former adversaries on the old DD blog, the "hypochrists" as I like to term them, shallow me. I can picture telling MIW or Observant that they can have the page and I won't interfere, just email me the text and I'll post it verbatim and even join in the discussion of it myself afterwards. Stop me if you think this isn't a good idea. I mean, I love the idea of blogging and having a page like this, but I want to share it with all of you somehow, since we all come from the same place, sorta. Even the ones I intensely disagree with. We're a motley crew.

    Oh, and you remember that ole GHB that became StBtG? The one that would fly off the handle at people that annoyed him? He won't be appearing here very often, if at all. It's not a promise to change my ways; it's an observation of my change of mind-set. Since it's my own blog, I can't see myself flaming people like I used to. It would be too embarassing somehow. Isn't that interesting? The things you learn about yourself online, I tell ya...

    So thanks again, and I notice a certain "eric" has posted an entry on the more recent page about christianity dumbing people down. He's the apologist type. Not sure if he's the "eric" from the boards who was a renzo clone yet. He's put some detail into it and so I won't answer him now, since I'm dead on my feet. However, golly gee gosh, it sure would be nice if some valiant athiest went over there and got to him before I could. :-)

  39. Mac, I've never driven a motorcycle in my life but I've always admired Harleys. If I had infinite money I'd pick the new V-rod. But almost as cool are the vintage bikes like the one in that pic. Way cool, dude.

    I can't say that I ever pictured Goddess as a sponge, but I can imagine gettin her we... er, nevermind. I'm a bad boy.

  40. Goddess, it's more popular than I thought it would be on the second day, thanks to all of you.

    Love the stoner spongebob pic. Reminds me of Towely from South Park.

  41. Botts, it takes one to know one. And that's what I'M talkin' about.

    REALLY glad to see you here, dude. Opinions? Criticisms? You know I'll take them seriously.

  42. And pboy...

    ...Pretty bird. He has character.

  43. This is what I 'get' if I try to activate the 'follow this blog' dealie.

    " - Could not detect a feed for this URL."

    What am I doing wrong now?

  44. Dunno pboy, I hope it eventually works.

    I don't think I'm in control of the feed thingy. I would tell you to ask customer service if you can find it, but I suspect that it would be a fool's errand. You'd probably wind up talking to someone in Bangladesh with cognitive dissonance and a lisp.

  45. Test. Test. Is this mike on?

    Brian, I hope you don't mind my presence here. Sorry about the insensitive comments the other day. As a consolation, I could function as the local Christian until one of the hypos shows up. Be gentle with me!

  46. Leonidas, I can't seem to recall your insensitive comments. Were you posting under another name? Where did you make them?

    You're very welcome here, and frankly I really hope that more non-hypocritical Christians join us. It makes the mix better. Much better, in fact.

  47. Oh, you're Torquemada!

    Your comments didn't bother me apparently or I would have made the connection. No problem. :-)

  48. Guilty as charged! I wish to leave that nom d'ordinateur over there. I'm kinda tired of it. I picked it way back when I first visited Dinesh's blog. I chose it because Mel Brooks' "History of the World Part I" was on the TV, NOT because I had any kind of agenda against "infidels." *wink*

    That scene where the nuns strip off their habits and start synchronized-swimming is hilarious. And strangely arousing.

  49. This doesn't look too hard. I hope to post occasionally, and lurk more often. There are some specific things I'd like to talk about that I don't get the chance to much on the DD blog because I'm never sure from day to day what will come up.

    For some of you who don't know me, I'm the resident Mormon on the DD blog. But, I'm a mixed bag, being somewhat liberal, with a healthy dose of rationalism (I hope). I'm totally pro separation of church and state--I'll explain why some time. I'm not really either pro-life or pro-choice (uncomfortable with the extremes of both issues), but would like to discuss the issue not from how we view life in our culture, but how we view death--might make for an interesting topic.

    I'm not particularly spiritual, and wonder what it is that makes some people spiritual and others not. I also like to talk about faith, and doubt. I think they're both important concepts and not mutually exclusive.

    So, I look forward to getting on here when I can.

    Cheers to all!

    Lloyd the Lurker

  50. I post as Harpochondriac on another blog. Funny. I wasn't expecting this. My nickname was Harpo in High School, many many years ago.

    Anyway, I'm Lloyd the Lurker, but may just leave the Harpochondriac handle. LOL

    Lloyd the Lurker

  51. Leonidas, I only just finished putting in my favorite movies in my profile. One of them is History of the World.

  52. Lloyd! I was hoping that you would show up!

    I didn't know that you were a mormon. I just knew that you weren't a hypochrist.

    I'd love to have you discuss the "how we view death" concept. It sounds very interesting. And anything else that you'd like to share.

  53. Well, I decided to come by and leave my mark, among other things. I too, have a blog on EBlogger, however mine will not be used to advance any idea or point of view. Its just a place to rant and rave about whatever enters my head when I sit at my computer.

    Of course, all are welcome to comment on anything.

    Let me say that I am not spiritual, I am not a christian, hindu, buddhist, or jew. I follow no ones path, yet I am not an athiest in the purest sense of the word. I just view the nature of the universe in a way that is like a quarter. It has a back and a front, but without the back, there could be no front. Its the same with the universe. It doesnt make much sense at first, but for me, its completely different.

  54. Welcome aboard, Stefan. I like your quarter analogy.

    Y'ever hear of holistic idealism? Check it out. I think it has some merit.

  55. Brian,

    I like the blog.

    Listen, you're going to be pissed at me, but shit, I didn't know.

    A few days ago, I decided that I wanted to start a blog. It's mainly about The Christianity I know versus Institutionalized Christianity. I'm going to go over many, many different subjects. Of course some will pertain to Atheism and other faiths.

    Then I come on the blogs, and you started a blog. Shit!!

    I've designed it and have done an introduction, but I haven't advertised it yet.

    Maybe our two will be good. Maybe not.

  56. Botts,

    Mad at you? Hell no! You've got a great "brand" of Christianity and I hope that you get the word out to a lot of people. I see you as being able to help many lost souls. You're the most nonjudgemental Christian that I've ever met.

    I'll visit yours if you visit mine.


  57. Oh Brian, forgot, I am otherwise the multi-Cack named blogger. Like the others, I am retiring Cack with the blog.

    I tend more towards the Taoists and Confuscianists. Rather than believe in a creator or entity. I believe in humans and human nature. I like to think that I and the universe are one process. Ever heard of Alan Watts?

  58. Hey Botts, drop your URL for your blog in your next post here.

    And Stefan/Cack, I've heard of Watts, but I'm not familiar with him. I'll check him out.

    How about Amit Goswami, author of "The Self-Aware Universe." Not so famous as watts and not a philosopher, but a quantum physicist.

  59. Bri,

    Is aol closing down the blogs or is that just a rumor?

  60. Wow,
    It's all on one page :-)

    Botts' blog os OK as well, I look forward to reading both your opinions.

    Don't forget to bless us with your poetry, please

  61. Gearheaded, check it out:

    They're closing them down. Which is what prompted me to start this one. Not as a substitute, although I'd of course be happy if that ever happened, but as at least a place where we all can meet up after we've gone separate ways.

    Hi Mac. Glad you like it. I haven't checked out Bott's place yet, but I will tonight. It's all on one page? Not sure if I get that, since I have two pages up right now.

    As to the poetry, of course I will... :-)

  62. Hi St. Brian! Congrats on your blog! Hi to everyone else as well!

  63. Yeah! St. Brian,

    We love the poetry, or I do anyway.
    I hope I can stop by and rant about my hypochrist evil twin who loves to tell me that she only wants to protest my non-belief usually with some sort of prayer thing in my e-mail, like that is going to convert me - you know when 20 years of Catholic indoctrination couldn't do it - maybe an e-mail with a Kincaid Picture will do. sniff sniff

    Thanks for being there, and I will miss your rants just a little, maybe Mr. Hayes will show up and give us a blast here and there for good measure. He keeps me sane for some reason - I like him. I would miss everyone if I couldn't go somewhere to read their comments. Am I pitiful or what?

    Thanks Brian for the opportunity.

    It also makes me feel good that my daughter is in your back yard - RI is so small, so anywhere is your back yard right???? lol

    I think you look just like your picture. I wonder what botts looks like, boy next door? He's from my back yard - okay Maryland, some people think Delaware is part of Maryland, you never know.

    I'll be back. (my best Arnold impersonation.)

  64. In the Beginning...

    Brian created his blog..

    ... and he saw that it was good.

  65. Hi again TJ,

    Thanks for the compliments, and of course you can stop by and rant away about anything you want to.

    I hope that William will show up, but I tend to think that he won't. He hasn't much respect for me, since I'm not absolutely Vulcan-Level Logical about certain aspects of spirituality, as in dismissing them utterly out of hand. In a way I admire his purity. Maybe his name should be Will'IBM' instead of -iam. But personally I'd rather have more heart and a tad less head. Or maybe in William's case it's more heart to match the huge head he already has. The balance makes for a more interesting and enjoyable life, or so I like to think.

    Yes, anywhere in RI is a neighbor to me, basically. The farthest distance as the crow flies that you can go in RI at any angle and not leave the state is about 45 miles. We're teensy.

    Botts actually described himself once that I can recall, to brian small "b" but he was very angry with him for calling his african-american wife a gorilla. (hypochrists... What can you do?) Anyhow he sounded pretty fearsome, as in bald head with scars and bullet wounds. Apparently his job brings him into the line of fire in third-world countries from time to time. Of course, he might have just been trying to scare the piss out of the othe brian and actually look like Ron Howard. I'd kinda like to see a picture too. But whatever he looks like, he's a way cool dude.

  66. Pboy, it is pretty good at that.

    I'm likin' it.

    Not only is it fun, but I get to keep my friends.

  67. Hi St.Brian! I think I successfully muddled through getting a Google account....if so... Congratulations on the new blog, and thanks for providing a new place. Looks like it's going to be very popular.

  68. Yea Botts, show us your mug-shot, I am showing mine, LOL.

    Did we have your email Brian? seems to me that that would be the only way for any of us to 'submit' a new article for your approval.

    Otherwise anything a commenter says is just a comment and anyone reading it would be thinking, "Who the hell is this guy hijacking Brian's blog?"

  69. Of course I plan on writing many if not most of the main pages still. I'm not trying to cop out on my creativity here. I just like the idea of "guest speakers" as it were.

    Let's say MIW wanted to write the topic page. I'd preface it with something like "Our guest blogger today is a Christian belonging to the Catholic (or whichever) church and would like to share his own view on what Christianity is and how it affects society." and then simply post in his page verbatim.

    The we could comment on it, but hopefully not in a way that convinces MIW to never come here again. As in legitimate critique and discussion of his views.

    Hell, even Renzo could do a page. LOL. If Dinesh has the time, I mean.

  70. There'll be beer, you said, chicks, you said, spiders in pink glitter spandex with several pairs each of elton john glasses, grashopparazzi, and you come up with THIS?


  71. I just got through posting a couple of things on the DD blog and thought I'd cut to here for a while. I think this is going to be more interesting for me--although I am also very interested in checking Botts' blog when he gets it up.

    I've been business partners with an atheist for so long that all y'all are like family to me!

    OK, here goes. I've introduced myself as the resident Mormon on the DD list, so I'll fill that role here, if that's OK. But, not to worry, I'm not here as an apologist, although there are some Mormon doctrines and philosophies that I think are pretty cool--more later. What I don't understand is why my fellow Mormons don't think some of those things are--again, more later. The LDS (as we prefer to be called) church is moving more and more to fundamental Christianity, and that is somewhat disturbing to me. I came of age in the 70's when there was a much more "liberal" atmosphere in the church, especially relating to our history. That's pretty much disappeared, along with much of the freedom to think. One of my favorite quotes is from a Mormon apostle in the 60s "we are not so worried that your thoughts are orthodox or heterodox, as that you shall have thoughts," or something to that effect. He also went on to decry the anti-intellectualism that he saw cropping up in the world, and by extension in the church.

    Well, anyway, enough of that. Here's a question that I've been wanting to ask of all y'all. It's come up in various guises in the DD blog, but let me ask it in as simple a form as I can--I want to boil this down to its essence.

    What does it really mean when someone says that they can't believe because there is no evidence for God, or life after death for that matter? Or, conversely, that they would believe if there was evidence. My view of faith is that by definition it can't be evidenced: it is the hope of things that are true, but can't be seen (I would say can't be observed). I'm paraphrasing here. We could have a discussion of what is true, but let's not get caught up with that yet. The point is that faith or belief, by definition is unobservable, unmeasurable. So, to say that you don't believe because there is no evidence makes no sense to me.

    Now, let me be clear by saying that I see faith and doubt as two sides of the same coin. I don't think you can have one without the other. I doubt all the time, and I'm in a particularly "doubtful" period of my life at the moment. But, I still see faith as a special thing. I envy those who really have it. I have members of my family who really exhibit that, and they're not the arrogant, blind types that we see so much of on the DD list. I really think that there must be something significant deep in our psyche that lends itself to this kind of simple faith. As an aside, I think we sometimes confuse this kind of simple, pure faith with obtuseness or naivete. I don't think that's it at all. There is something very different about it. I really don't have it.

    (I'm digressing here a bit, but what the heck, this is a blog) And so, I feel that it's a bad thing to try and take away or destroy someone's faith. And I'm not talking about the arrogant, churched, indoctrinated faith (I wouldn't even use the word faith in that context). The kind of simple, pure faith I'm talking about has nothing against learning new things and processing information, whether it be science or not. This kind of faith is not threatened by evolution or cosmology.

    Actually, the people I "fear" the most, or who I think are the worst faith killers are not atheists or agnostics (although William Hayes might be an exception), it is the rabid fundamentalists who insist on their version of truth and can't stand to see any other. These people are vicious. They hate Mormons, as well as Catholics and others, but I think they especially like to come after us. I live in upstate NY, but work in CT (that's a long story), and there is a pageant that the LDS church puts on every year in Palmyra, NY--about 20 miles east of Rochester. Some of you may have heard of it. You ought to go sometime, not so much for the pageant, but to hear the "anti-Mormons" as we call them. They line up on the road with bull-horns prior to, and immediately after the pageant, to rail against Mormons, with such incredible invective that it's hard to describe. It's almost laughable in a sense--some of the stuff that they say (and how they say it in that fast-talking, air-gulping preacher style) until you realize that these are not nice people. They really mean it. You know the type.

    Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, they're the enemy. And it concerns me that many LDS (who have an intense history of persecution in this country during the 19th century--all by the hands of the religious establishment at the time, many state governments, and the US government)want to align themselves with these people on issues such as gay marriage, intelligent design, (no) separation of church and state, prayer in school, etc.

    The irony is that if these people get more power, one of the first groups of people they will go after will be the Mormons...

    Sorry I digressed from my question about faith and evidence.

    Well, St B. I bet you didn't expect this kind of post, but thanks for letting me vent.

    Lloyd the Lurker

  72. I'm so gratified that everyone seems to like my new place here. I plan on it being a friendly place.

    If you look at my very first post here and then my second and third you might notice that I've undergone a fairly rapid evolution as pertains to how I thought I'd do this blog. On this page you can even find my epithet glossary, so it looks like I'm preparing for war. But the more I thought about it and considered that this it after all my place and not Dinesh's, the more I felt almost ashamed that I'd posted that glossary. I no longer plan to make this place a place for polemic screeds. I want it to ba a place where peole feel free to talk about their spirituality, and discuss differences in a civil and productive and most important fun and interesting manner. That's my new goal. I still might flame someone, but they'll have to be a real jerk for that to happen now. And even if I do, it'll be a more civil and gentlemanly flameout. It's different when it's your place, is my point.

  73. Lloyd, in this case I like the unexpected. Welcome, resident Mormon.

  74. Saint Brian:

    They're closing them down. Which is what prompted me to start this one. Not as a substitute, although I'd of course be happy if that ever happened, but as at least a place where we all can meet up after we've gone separate ways.


    You should explore that possibility, Brian. I would imagine that blogging for AOL is a paid endeavor. Your obvious ability in this area should be rewarded.

  75. GHB - I just dropped in to say hi, and let you know that I have checked out your site. I had to jump through a lot of hoops to post. But I am glad that I did. Hi to all of y'all.


  76. MIW, I can't tell you how happy I am to see you here. Yes, I know we have argued vehemently in the past, but I've always enjoyed it. Welcome anytime.

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